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Photos courtesy of Stefan
Wednesday, November 5, 2008
Martin Lacey Jr. with King Tonga, Princess and Diamond
Posted by
Wade G. Burck
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A Blog designed for discussion of topics related to, but not limited to, Circus, Zoos, Animal Training, and Animal Welfare/Husbandry. Sometimes opening up the dialog is the best starting point of all. And if for nothing else when people who agree and don't agree, get together and start discussing it, it will open up a lot of peoples minds. Debate and discussion even amongst themselves opens a window where there wasn't one before.
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32 comments:
Wade, thank you.
Stefan, thank you.
They are really beautiful!
Mary Ann
Wade,
Are these champagne colored lions?
Amy
Amy,
They are either Champagne Lions or White Lions. I am not sure. What do you think?
Wade
Is there a shortage of fiberglass sorting poles in Europe? If so I will trade them straight up for twisted willow shafts,lol
Casey,
They wouldn't touch a fiberglass pole, and the don't have to. The still have a source for good wood products.
Wade
Hey Wade - any comment on the amount of "hardware" in the King Tonga pics?
Wade,
Champagne? Only based on the color undertones. Whatever the color they look absolutely stunning.
Amy
That may be the case. But I don't think he is using "good wood product" it looks more like decorative bamboo shoot (thick, stiff, and brittle) not rattan shoots (thin and flexible). I am guessing the bamboo is the reason he is wearing those gloves, something that was very common with American lion trainers in the days of wooden props and use of a wooden chair.
Evidently Martin is with Medrano/Cassartelli in Rome for Christmas,as id Mr Dalmatin.
WADE DISREGARD LAST COMMENT!
I have been since educated it is a mallacca cane. No need to post either that one or this one.
There you have it folks. Amy who has not been programed to see what is not there, has no paper to hang, using only the criteria for color came up with the answer herself.
This is a fact also. When people walk up to a group of white and normal tigers, they exclaim, "oh look, there are the white tigers!!!" When they walk up to one of those lions that has been advertised as a "white lion", they exclaim, "is that the white lion?" Maybe some of the public knows their color base also.
If they were not advertised as "white", dollars to donuts they would ask, "why is he a different color?" But they would not ask,"where did you get the white lion?" The lion above is the same lion Amy, just at a younger stage of his life.
Wade
Casey,
Trust me bamboo or rattan, the product is far superior over there then here. What is a mallacca cane? I have never heard of that. Clyde and the "fighters" wore leather gloves. These are rubber gloves. I don't know why they are worn. I wore a surgical rubber glove to cover a bandaged left hand one time, so I wouldn't get blood from the meat on it.
Wade
Wade, thank you for posting my pictures on your blog. so this is my first comment here :-)
Steve mate,
Are you back at base camp, or are you still touring? I am assuming Steph asks about me all the time, so do give her my best.LOL
I want to make sure "furniture" means props, as it does in America. Last night I commented to a German fellow, and told him that a comment he made on a German Fan site, was "dead on". He not understanding what "dead on" meant, took it to mean that I had told him he should be embarrassed for saying such a stupid thing. A German friend who speaks English had to patch it, as the German fan was pretty hot. Almost started a hey rube 2000 miles away. LOL
That said, and this is only an opinion based on training styles as individuals and not Nationalities, the only additional "furniture" I can see is an extra "T" bar. I use only one, and never teach the cats to use it on their seats. I set an extra pedestal with the "T" as far away from the seats as possible. I have found it kills two birds with one stone, by teaching the animal to "move/go away" as well as teaching them to sit up. The chances of them sitting up on their seats are nil to none, but they will be sitting up on the floor and at various other places in the arena. After they are confirmed in their sitting up on the sit up pedestal, strong and free, with out the "T" bar, I will sit them up on their seat a few times to make sure they are solid, before I start sitting them up on the ground. But very seldom, as I want them assured that their seat is a "safe haven" or "sanctuary" if you will, and nothing else. A place to receive awards, rest, and safety. I have spent my career with numbers in the cage for training, very seldom one or a pair. I have found this method to work well with groups, as it teaches them you can move them individually if necessary, or as a group if need be. Additionally I have found that if the proverbial "shit hit's the fan" most will have learned to get back to their seats for safety, instead of sticking around to get a piece of me or the combatant's. Training styles develop individually, depending on what you have been submersed in or been around your whole career.
The color of the props I can only assume was a choice and not a validation of a "real stupid thing" a German fellow told me years ago. As I was touring the home and compound of two famous breeders of white tigers, I asked "why is everything in the enclosures painted white?"(walls, rocks, trees, etc) One of them responded, "do you notice your white tigers are more nervous then the normal colored ones, and do you know why?" I said, "yes, I have noted that, and I was under the assumption that it had to do with the color of their iris's and light reflection in the bright spot lights, and that a few of them are cross eyed, as I note some of yours are." He said, "no it is because they are uncomfortable in a normal colored environment, given that they are white. If you painted your equipment in the arena white, instead of blue, they would not be nervous any more!!!!" Before I could ask him what that change would do to the normal colored ones, and to point out they are color blind, his partner saved me from pissing him off, by saying, "Oh don't be stupid. This is Wade Burck you are talking to, not the reporters from the TV.
Wade
Wade, I just received the book from the library that Raffaele de Ritis recommended "The Secret Life of Siegfried and Roy."
Mary Ann
Mary Ann,
I will await your review. I assume it won't be as much of a wait as John Coopers review of the shows he has seen.
Wade
G'day mate,
Home till the weekend, away again till end of November and then back at the zoo till mid January.
Sorry mate - no daily enquiries from Steph!! lol By the way, I did censor all the emails!
Re poles - we can't get good rattan over here any more so use fibreglass "pig" poles. Still need gloves though to protect against fibreglass splinters.
Well done Amy. I have long been looking for a "white" lion to add a point of difference to a lion act here in Australia. I haven't found a truly "white" one yet. I saw a picture of one in New Zealand that looked pretty good but I reckon that he was bleached for the pic because he was champagne in real life. I guess we should call them "light" lions not "white" lions!
Wade, thanks for the Black Forest info in your email. The Aussie dollar has now dropped 37% against your greenback so I won't pursue the matter for a while.
Re Martin's hardware - I should have blown the photos up before I opened my big mouth. At first glance, with my elderly eyes, there appeared to be Court style little gates all over the place. Now that I've blown up the pics I can see that Tonga is in an exercise yard and what I thought were little gates are really ledges and benches. Note how Martin has got his lionesses' T bar pedestals tipped back to throw the cat's centre of gravity back a bit. He's a smart bloke.
We've got the equivalent of your German friends over here. They forget you've been around for a year or two and try to get you to swallow the same bullshit that they feed the media. One of Mr Schroer's young associates is a real expert at it!
Stay safe.
Steve,
I assume the blocks of wood are to level the seats. I have yet to find a parking lot that seats will not rock/wobble on. I have never heard of tipping the "center of gravity" back. It seems it would have the same adverse affect of tipping it forwards. That's why the sit up pedestals are blocked away from the cage and not pushed against it. The tend to rest back against the cage, instead of developing the strength for a sit up from their hips with a natural lift and not a lean back. It is hard to get them away from the "crutch" of leaning back against something. Maybe why we only saw one sit up on the floor free, not sitting or leaning on something up until about the mid 60's ?
Wade
Steve,
Speaking of folks in Australia, what do you think of that fellow named Michael who used to be involved with the "Moscow Circus". I heard he is a Ace and a real up and comer? What do you think?
Wade
Yep - but look at the level of the pedestals. Seat tipped right back - lion's bum slopes back, lion's back follows, takes weight away from T bar, lion learns to control vertical sit up quicker.
We also use chips of wood to level seats on parking lots but not bloody great logs like these!
Wade - you need spellcheck. The word starts with A but the other letters are different!!
What are you guys doing with the fiberglass rods to get splinters in your hand? I have used the same one all season. The only part that comes in contact with anything hard, is the end where you put the chunk of meat. Unless you are doing the Lou Reagan and chunking the whip and stick across the arena after each performance, all but the last 2 or 3 inches should still be new. I think you aussies are just hard on the equipment,,,lol or wearing the gloves to look like our former LION KINGS,,lol
Steve,
No way. They go up into a sit up,with the small of the back/hips pushing into the spine, with the spine pushing into the ribs, ribs into the chest, chest into the shoulders, into the neck. not back into a sit up. The "T" is not used to lean on. It is someplace for them to put their feet so they don't swat at the meat and lose their balance and fall possibly becoming afraid of the trick. The "T" is used for a minimum of 2 or 3 day's, for a total of 9 to 10 times, and then it is turned upside down and they only use one foot for balance if they should lose their balance and come down out of the sit up. The foot is nuded/pushed off with the butt of the whip, the meat and stick over head giving them the direction, not the motivation. They meat is rewarded "after" they do those things and are told to come down.
Wade
Steve,
Here's what I come up with on spell check: Albert, Alvin, Alexander, Abigale. Are any of those right? LOL Is there a first name starts with an F before the second name starting with A?
Casey - we don't do the chuck the gear routine over here because we don't have enough staff to fetch for us! LOL.
The poles get most of their splinters during transport.
Wade - you seem to know the bloke pretty well!! Those initials are exactly right. If he offers you a contract go invest in a high powered magnifying glass to read it with! LOL
Wade, as you know we have been going to a zoo that has "white" lions every month for the last six years, and sitting with them for half a day. You are absolutely correct about the comments that the public makes. This past summer we saw Ramses up in Massachusetts with my daughter and her family. I asked her about this last night on the phone, and she said that if she did not know that he was supposed to be "white", she would have just thought him a lighter shade than his mates.
Mary Ann
Steve,
I have found it is the last few inches at the end that Casey mentioned, that are the most evil. But at 9.00 a pole. Why take a chance. The minute one of them bit's it, trying to take the meat, I throw it away. Nothing will replace rattan.
Wade
Mary Ann,
In the historically self serving grandiose world of circus/show buisness publicity/public relations, someone I know very well, used to always ask, "what difference does it matter?" I suggest it matter's greatly in our industry that has gone through a terrible public image/perception the last 20 years. We need to validate our selves. The day's of "300 year old elephants, the only one of it's kind, bringing you the mysteries of the animal kingdom, the most colossal, stupendous etc. etc. got real sophisticated and educated. I also suggest the less opportunities the world is given to respond to our answers about animal husbandry/care, with something like, "yeah right, just like your "white lions" the better off we will be.
Wade
i see in the picture with the male lion that Martin Lacy is wearing a clawed necklac that you disaprove. I to disaprove Why do you publish this
Frederick
Frederick,
My eyes apparently aren't as good as yours, so I can't address what you are seeing. I will only reiterate that I think the wearing/use of animal parts/pieces, unless they were harvested/hunted in a legal government sanctioned manner is hypocritical and a detriment to an industry that professes care and concern for the animals they use. That's just my opinion.
Wade
Wade, I agree with your position totally. I did enlarge the picute in question, and he is wearing some kind of necklace under the shirt, but it is impossible to determine what it is. I would not be ready to say that it is a clawed necklace.
Mary Ann
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