Note the pedestals. Those are the ones I used to built my last tiger act, and they are the one's Adam is using today. Casey, note Louis position and the "infamous"(not his, somebody else's) oblique starting to form. Although you may have heard differently. LOL Louis produced some beautiful acts noted for mechanical props and beautiful costuming and production. He and Charley Baumann had a similar style of working and training tigers. I used to speak with him often, when you would come to America to see the Ringling show, and visit Charley. I truly regret turning down the opportunity to go to Circus Knie in 1988, getting to know him better and discussing training philosophies.
Wednesday, October 29, 2008
Louis Knie--When we mention greats from my generation we do not want to forget this gentleman.
Posted by
Wade G. Burck
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20 comments:
Wade, when you didn't go to Circus Knie, Europe's loss was truly America's gain.
Mary Ann
Mary Ann,
Thank you. Things would have been a lot different for a lot of people if I had.
Wade
I have never seen Louis work, but I did meet him when he took his own show to Holland in 2000. A really nice guy - and a great pity that his show went under.
(Somebody has bought the title and is presenting a show under his name. I haven't heard anything about it.)
These tigers aren't his tigers, this are the tigers from James Clubb Chipperfield.
Thomas,
I knew they were Clubbs tigers, but the seats are the gold ones from Louie's other act which was much larger. Look at the seats in the pictures you have on your site of Gerd's big tiger act. They are the seats I used for my last tiger act, and the one's my son uses today. I posted some pictures of Louis bigger act it a while back. One of the top acts of the day. Nothing available today could touch it. He had a tiger jump over two horse cavelletis on it's hind legs. Thats where I got the idea for the corbette over tigers. My philosophy has always been, "you don't copy great ones, you improve on their achievements. Then you have honored them." He had mirrored balls, a revolving fire jump, double wheel, light up bottle walk. He was an admirer of Charley Baumann, and did of lot of Charley behaviors. You won't see anything like it today, but I hope that gives you an idea of it's greatness. That you can trust, interviews you can't. You missed out on the "Golden Era" of wild animal training.
Wade
I know he was a great circus performer also with elephants he did great things! I saw many pictures of his act with tigers and elephants amazing I think better than the act of Gunther Gebel and his elephant and tiger act! Louis Knie wons also a golden clown in Monte Carlo many people forgot that because on al sites and papers they just say golden clown for the knie family. He's bigger tiger act was with 11 tigers it was for many years also presented in Busch Roland by Ruppert Bemmerl, who became later chief of the Knie zoo. Later it came back to Knie then went to Althoff Elfi Jacobi and later came back for the last years in Knie. Gerd Siemoneit is also one of those great performers I found his mixed act was amazing and also were his other acts: 20 tigers, 15 lions, white tigers, new bengal tiger act,...
Thomas
Thomas,
Don't be crazy. Nobody was at Gunther's level, day in and day out. Louis had the great advantage of working for Louis also. Gunther had double the animals and responsibilities. Those are "intangibles" that should be equated into every discussion.
The act you are talking about was sold to Tarzan Zerbini and came to the United States. That is how the props and equipment got here. It was presented for some time by Daniel Suskow, as well as training a liberty act, after he left Ringling in 1985. The equiptment was sold to Hawthorn, and I found them in 2002, stored in a semi trailer. I recognized them from the act in the early 70's and but the seats back in service, and used the cavalleti's to start the corbette. The bottle walk went into Susan Lacey act. The wheel and revolving fire jump are still at Hawthorn.
And yes Gerd was one of the best because he made different animal numbers over and over. The person who works with one group of animals for many years is not near as skilled as a Gunther, Gerd, Louis, etc. who worked with many different animals. Those again are called "intangibles."
Wade
Wade
Addendum to Thomas,
Going to Monte Carlo does not count for a hill of beans. Anymore the going to Carre or any other festival. It is not like a World Soccer Cup. It is who ever is available at the moment.
Wade
Wade,
I saw just one video of Gunther Gebel and I can say that is the best tiger act I ever saw. From his elephant with tigers act I just saw a really short video. And what do you mean with equipment? Do you know in witch year the act was sold to Tarzan Zerbini and in witch year did the act performed for the last time? And some last question did Gunther Gebel always worked with the same tiger act ? Do you have some pictures for me of him ?
I few weeks ago I saw Tommy Dieck Jr. working with his animals they're beautiful! I saw him performing for the first time in 2005 when all the animals were just punks it's great how the grows. I think if you see now The lacey's and Dieck are the only great acts on tour in European Circusses right now! What you're saing about Monte Carlo I found also but I just wanted to say that, but I think that working in Knie, Krone or Ringling however is a sense of honour.
Thomas
Thomas,
By equipment, I mean requisites, or the things in the cage that the animals sit on or perform on like a a mirrored ball. Normally only baby elephants are referred to as "punks" baby felines are "cubs".
Gunther worked with many different animals, not just tigers. The acts on Ringling always have to change, as they do on any show or the people get tired of seeing the same thing. If you move from show to show every couple of years, you don't need as much change as the audience changes, and as the show worked 11 months and went right into rehearsal all training was done while traveling and doing shows. No person before or since has done it to the high caliber that GGW did. Video's only give you a slight idea of what something is. Did you not notice that the white tiger video was not the act you saw. Where was the big group sit up? Video's like interviews are to put every thing in the best light, regardless of whether it is. A training tape done upstaged is your only valid reference, or seeing it live, and knowing what you are looking at.
I don't know when the act was sold to Zerbini, or when it worked for the last time.
In regards to honor, honor was breathing the same air as the Gebels, Knies, Baumans, etc. Honor is not competing in a weakened field.
Wade
Monte Carlo was honorable years ago, and like Ringling the best were there. But that is not the situation on Ringling, or Krone any more. Like Monte Carlo it is availability, as there is not much available any more. Krone is still the greatest in Germany, as Ringling is in America. The difference is that Europe has Togni, Casartelli,Knie etc. in addition to Krone, but nothing in Germany compares. Nothing comes close to Ringling in America even on it's worst day.
Wade,
I agree what you said about Knie, Krone, Togni,...
Just take a look to my blog I post a thing about some of the greatest cage acts ever! And say what you find of it. I don't now maybe you don't know him but Frederic Edelstein is also a great cage act trainer/presenter he presents 16 tigers and lions in Cirque Pinder. I saw the act just one time and in a few weeks I'm going to Paris to view it for the second time. In their menagery they have over 20 tigers and over 40 lions a great view!
Thomas
Thomas,
I go you your blog all the time. Why don't you pull pictures of of this blog, that you like. Or what I have on circuspace if you would like.
I have never seen Fredric's act, and not many pictures of it. He would be an example of an intangible, and haveing a great trainer like Dickie Chipperfield helping you or the great Wolfgang Holtzmeir. That is kind of flying a fighter jet, with Chuck Yeager sitting beside you, ready to take the controls if you burn out. But the number of animals in the act, points to a greater skill then most.
Wade
Wade, I'll post a posting with all pictures I have from you. Can you tell me witch are your favourite cage acts ? And the white tiger act you trained with the corbette tiger who presente them in the year season ? If you came to europe some time It would be an honour to meet you!
Thomas
Thomas,
My favorites, Gebel, Baumann, Knie, Semonite, Chipperfield, McMillian. I have seen nothing comparable for 20 years. The last tiger act I trained, or will ever train, will never see the ring again. Your last chance was 2006 in Evansville Indiana at the Turkey festival.
Wade
Wade,
Can you sent me some videos of Gunther gebel's acts ? And on the blog yesterdaystowns there is a movie of gunther with a tiger act is this the tiger act you also worked with ? So yes from witch year did Gunther presented them do you know? Thanks for all the answers you gave me !
Thomas
Thomas,
Wolfgang should have been in the list above. Today is not realistic to compare as some have a great advantage over others. It is not as equal footing any more. Is the person who is better because they had a 15 year head start over the person starting out now. I base skill's on how many animals worked with in the 15 year head start. Or the same number of animals as the person starting out. I only base on what I have seen live. When I base an opinion that is what it is based on, as an animal trainer watching another animal trainer knowing what is possible, and not what somebody is telling me, or what a publicity who wants you to see. I regret not going to Monte Carlo in 81 and 83 when we were asked, yes. But with in 10 years it was no longer the noble achievement it once was.
Wade
Thomas,
I don't have any videos of Gunther because I as an animal trainers didn't keep videos of other trainers.
As athletes don't keep videos of other athletes. Gunther didn't have an act as you suggest. It changed always. That was the greatness of Gunther. Again 10 people working on act does not make them skilled, it makes it a good group of animals.
Wade
Thomas,
And Pat Anthony should be on that list.
Wade
Wade - from the other side of the world so not an informed question......just a query about a name I used to hear a bit about. Lou Regan??
Steve,
Lou Regan was the first man I worked for in the circus. Adam's middle name is Regan after him.
Wade
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