I has been suggested by non jealous folks that if you are in one spot and not traveling you can train great things. I have suggested it doesn't matter as much as who is doing the training. Need we wonder why the people have quit coming, or why they don't like it any more? We won't even rate this as it is off the minus scale. Adam and Casey, you will note the attempt at a pedestal waltz by a right handed trainer, and the direction the turn. Some folks have done a pedestal waltz for a long as 15 years and had no idea part of their problem with it, was they were right handed, and the animals were trained by a left handed trainer. That's how qualified/aware some are. This profession desperately needed a standard.
Tuesday, September 23, 2008
They even excel in tigers, both gold and tabby
Posted by
Wade G. Burck
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17 comments:
I just got a call from Josip Marcan, reminding me that the tabbys in this video were sold by him. I knew that as all tabbys in Europe are from his stock.
Wade
This video says it all, no need for a comment,,,,lol
Casey,
Josip tried to patch for this, but when he realized I was having nothing to do with that, and he remembered who he was talking to, he said, "maybe you are right." LOL
Wade
Although Mr. Marcan breeds the from the best stable of tigers in the world, it doesn't mean they are pre-disposed to be great performing animals. It is not his or the tigers fault they didn't get a good education.
Like I said before I don't know squat about cats but as I watched this clip I wondered why those cats weren't munching on the gray haired guy. Looked to me like they could have done it anytime they wanted...
Then, I read your first comment saying they were Josip's and I know why they didn't eat that guy for lunch.
Don't know squat but I do know if I was to get into cats I'd call Josip Marcan.....
Casey,
I totally agree with your last statement but wouldn't you agree that working with the good genes makes the good trainers look great and the bad trainers not get eaten.
NO!
The genes will affect what the animal is physically able to do. But I believe it has nothing to do with what the animal thinks or learns. In tigers, the smartest one is the hardest to convince to do something the same day in and day out. And the more aggressive animals are always the best performers, in my humble "jr. cub scout" opinion, all of the animals behavior comes from it's interaction with people beginning at day one. These tigers were born on the rite track, however they were obviously taken away from Marcan young, and before being well educated. They probably did have better manners then cats say, born there, however that was all lost within a few months of being drilled in a confusing way over and over. Just my opinion...
Jody,
A great Trainer can make a good animal great, and a bad trainer can make a good animal worthless.
Wade
Casey & Wade,
I think I'm not explaining my thoughts properly to you.
Aren't we all saying that a bad trainer can ruin any animal regardless of the genes?
And a Great Trainer has the ability to make a bad animal great.
Since all I can do is use horses as an example:
For the most part:(There ARE exceptions as all of these have had champions)
Sonny Dee Bar Bloodlines are hot.
Topsail Cody Bloodlines are hot.
Impressive Bloodlines are not as athletic.
Rugged Lark Bloodlines are very trainable.
Hollywood Jac 86 Bloodlines are very trainable and very athletic.
Do you not have that in cats?
I have a friend that took care of some of Josip's cats. I met Josip only once but was very impressed with the way I saw how he raised his cats and how they responded to him and the people working around them.
I don't want to mention names but I did see a girl working his cats and I felt after watching that act that I could have done just as good even though I know nothing. The cats did their job maybe not as sharp as if you guys were doing it but they still did their job without much assistance from the girl. No, I'm being too nice...I think those cats could have done it if she hadn't moved at all....(Wade, she was a passenger not a rider)
Should whoever trained those cats get the credit..ABSOLUTELY....
I know I haven't seen a lot of cat acts but I can't think of any others that I've seen that would have allowed her to just stand there look pretty and do nothing...
So, is it really wrong for me to say that if I could have cats I would want them with Hollywood Jac 86 Bloodlines......
I appreciate you guys not booting me out of this topic...I found Casey's last comment very interesting, especially the aggressive ones being the best performers...Maybe someday I will get to see you guys work in person. Until then, thank you for sharing your knowledge...I do appreciate it....
Jody
Jody,
A great Trainer can make a bad horse better, but it will alway be a bad horse, mentally and physically, meaning there are much better ones out there. Bobby Loomis made Topsail Cody hot, and is a good example of great making good great. Impressive was bred for form and not function, as well as giving us HYPP unfortunately. His performance career was stopped when he was young due to pedal osteitis, which may be stress related, but genetic predisposition can not be ruled out. Hollywood Jac 86 also gave us those beautiful Duns and Buckskins LOL Sonny Dee Bar will give you some fabulous performance horses, if Sorrel is your deal, and Rugged Lark is a decent Western Pleasure sire. I quite thinking much of him, during that Super Horse/Lynn Palm deal, but that's not his fault.
I think if enough years are spent breeding for disposition, it is possible to acquire that but it would take as long as setting a physically characteristic and we must not exclude the most important factor in that behavior, and that is the mare who is raising the babies personality and the foals early life and handling, and the foundation they are started with.
Timid animal are difficult to train time wise, as you must first gain their trust and give them confidence, before you can ever start training them for anything useful. Tigers have for the most part in the circus been bred for their stripes. There has never been a need for any major breeding, in which to produce a characteristic. Not just in the circus but for any reason. An attempt to domesticate horses was started thousands of years ago, because man had a need for their service. There is know use for a tiger in the service of man than as a performing animal.
Josip and his people spend alot of quality time with the young animals which is very, very important. Not who is spending the time, as some would like to believe, but what kind of time is being spent with them. It is one thing to spoil a puppy and let him shit on the floor, it is another thing to spoil a tiger cub and let him bite your head off.
I suggest the animals you saw one Clyde Beatty were chosen for the talent that was available. That was wise on Josips part, and he has the knowledge to provide that. I have seen many animals destroyed by incompetent handling, not the fault of the animal, but the fault of the person who owned the animals and didn't want to address the incompetence of the presenter, and the fault of the presenter who was out of their league, but was given the opportunity to ruin more until finally there were some that accepted the "kind and gentle" method/style.
Wade
Cainan's comments are a joke.In a year or two he will be working at a gas station and the tigers will be at some "sanctuary" or worse
This is about one of Europes most famous trainers Dieter Farell.The clip is of a demonstration he and his son Rene and daughter Monica gives daily at there tigerpark in Germany.You can find and learn more about them on there site:
www.tigerpark.de.Only in german though.You can find a lot of pics under " Bildergalerie" when you look at" Familie Farell".
Rob,
I realize this is Dieter Farell, and I am aware of his abilities. All the more reason why I would have expected much more from him then what this video suggests. No animal is aware of who somebody is, and performs brilliantly because of that fact.
Didn't Monica perform with Leopards at one time. Email me, if you would Rob, I have lost your address. Thank you.
Regards,
Wade
Rob,
Famous for what exactly?
Casey,
Back in the 70's and 80's Deiter produced some really nice acts.
Wade
Casey, as Wade stated Dieter produced some very fine acts back in the 70s and 80s.Like a mixed act with lions,tigers,puma's and leopards.
2 Black panthers riding 2 Haflingers ,presented by his daughter and more.I think he is one of the "classics"of wildanimaltrainers.
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