Darryl, quite causing trouble. Until our esteemed college John Milton Engesser Herriot gets here to correct you, I will answer for him. "Where in the hell do you get this crap? If the Zoologist says it's a Battler Eagle thats what it is. If he says the male black bear, is the mother of the Sun bear, and thats a timber wolf, THATS WHAT IT IS. Not all this bullshit. CASE CLOSED!!! You need to respect your predecessors . I thought everybody from across the water was great?" Smiling John Herriott
Saturday, August 16, 2008
Battler Eagle
Posted by
Wade G. Burck
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20 comments:
LOL I am chastised and will attempt to keep my mouth shut. NOT!!!!!
Wade, is there anyone working a male lion act in Europe now. Don't know where some people think they can work a group of male lions. It takes a special person for this and a lot different than tigers!
Darryl,
Not that I know of. And I disagree with you strongly about the last statement. Historically male lions were the favored beast of the great cage. They started to fall out of favor when Baumann and Gebel went through the roof. The rest is self serving paper. Come back with anything you want, this is the one animal thing I will pull a Herriot on, and say CASE CLOSED. Anybody is welcome to agree or rebut you, and I will publish it, but unless it is a cheap shot at me, I have nothing more to say on the subject.
Wade
Not trying to stir up a fight. Just making a statement concerning an earlier post about a group of male lions. I thought Jewel New did an amazing job working as many as 17 males at CW and 15 on the blue show, a feat that not many can do. Especially thru the though years, and with no big cat background.
Darryl friend,
Don't think you were stirring up a fight, you misinterpreted one time on the "History Channel". LOL
"With no experience, how difficult can lions be." Merkel and Peters had experience. As did Marcan when he had his lions. I still say it is self serving paper, normally referenced to Beatty and his superiority over everybody.
Wade
Darryl,
I have never seen Jewels act (not even on video) what did they do? I hear about the act often, I wish I could have seen it. I missed all the great acts of that era.
Casey,
No you didn't you caught the best one last summer. LOL There is footage of the act, on that Ringling tape you begged me to autograph for you. LOL I mentioned to you that it had a pretty pyramid like Charleys, and played to the end of the house as others did, without a chute, as they came in the back, and not through the side, as CHB and GGW did. I am not sure how long he had the act. Darryl, do you know?
Wade
Casey, as Wade said, highlights on the RBBB video. Nice pyramid with I think 8 siting up, all15 in laydown, jumps, and close with Kenneth riding on the back of motorcycle then closing with a hug. For lazy lions lots of activity. Wade who do you think could train and present an act like this today? Marcan of course,Roy Wells has done it years ago, Lance has been working on one for two years and has yet to get a group of geneticly sound lions, Casey is a possiblity, John Illig, and of course Jim Clubb. Probably the lacey's in Europe, did I miss anyone. GGW tried lions with no luck. Ok, I will put my spoon away now. LOL Sorry can't not mention you!
Jewel started putting the act together in the mid 70's and worked it until it was sold to the Saurez in the mid 80's. Only ten lions working when Saurez had the act then the numbers dropped and were never replaced. George Barrada is another that took over his father's lions and Daniel Suskow as well. Gary Hill would be able to give more exact dates, as he was there.
Casey, I raised and worked with three of your 4 tigers, so glad to see they are doing well and would love to see them work. I know the names got changed around when I left them with LAD on Gopher's show. LAD always had a hard time telling them apart.
Darryl,
Daniel Suskov went on Ringling in 1982/83 to work Charleys act. I went there in 1984. Was Jewel there in 1982?
George Barrada's fathers act was not males, Georges act later was 8 males(actually 7, plus Tuffy the castrated comedy lion from his father). I realize it was only 8 and not 15, but they didn't just laydown. They all sat up on the ground, with no floor plates. Daniel took over his fathers 7 males, and Gert Semonit had an act with 10 or 12.
I have never noticed numbers when looking at an act. When I was asked, "how many cats were they working", in reference to two good ones I had seen in Europe, I didn't know. I had to go back and look at still photos. When one of these fine young men, asked me after looking at a video of the corbett, triple hind leg walk and circle leap frog, "how many cats do you have?" I answered, "as many as I can get in the truck, and still be legal." How many is an intangible like artificial turf, or natural turf. What do they do?
Darryl,
In regards to not telling them apart, I think he still struggles with that. LOL
Wade
Darryl,
Missed anyone? You weren't even close on the ones you named. In regards to GGW not having much success with lions: "Gunther had 4 young lions, in 1982. 2 males and 2 females. He was going to make a riding act with horses. One of the lioness died in in 83, and he used a lion and lioness to roman ride with two horses for spec in 83. He had more to do then anyone could dream of, and I think there was suspicion at that time of his health, and he did not complete the riding act. He gave the lions to Danial Suskow and the horses, and Danial continued with their training, and that can be viewed on the Ringling animal trainer video.
The other female got her collar hooked in the cage(remember the snaps that used to hang inside), shortly after Daniel got them, on a trip from Tampa to West Palm Beach and she died enroute. As Daniel didn't have a lot of time for training the two remaining males Bongo and Ceaser, as he was training 2 different liberty acts, they were sold to Mike Hackenbeger in Canada, and they went on to star in the movie Ghost in the Darkness.(pretty good foundation GGW who wasn't that good put on them, don't you think, or was it Daniel who could work his fathers lions but not finish the riding act that wasn't skilled?)
The two horses, Tom and Jerry I put into an act with 2 others and 4 miniature horses when I went back to Ringling in 1991, and Tina Gebel worked with them for two years before she retired from the circus.
Again Darryl, now that I have pulled a Herriott and came back anyway, I will reiterate my first thoughts, "Historically male lions were the favored beast of the great cage. They started to fall out of favor when Baumann and Gebel went through the roof. The rest is self serving paper."
Wade
Jewel's act went to a park in Pennslyvania I believe in 82. Was only on the blue show in 78 and 79.
Spent most of it's time at CW. As far as behaviors, I agree in quality is better than quantity. I believe GGW tried some lions before the ones in the 82 era, but not sure. He did an amazing job with the time available and wearing so many hats. GGW leopards where a great influence on me, but The Tetzlaff leopards behaviors were the tops.
Who do you feel can train and present male lions out of todays trainer/presenters?
I have photo's of Daniel practicing Charley's act in 82. Didn't know they were GGW's lions that he was working. Hackenberger made the money to start the Bowmanville zoo from that movie.
Darryl,
To answer this "Who do you feel can train and present male lions out of todays trainer/presenters" I have to split it apart. Presenters, any one currently working today all over the world, and most presenters retired.
Trainer is harder. None. Unless you define "training" and "today". With that thought I would have to say Marcan, Clubb, Chipperfield, Myself, Semonite, Whitfield, Holtzmeir, McMillian, Strickler, quite possibly Smith, Illig and Schroder. If there are some that I thought had died, but hadn't, let me know. I may add them to "my" list. A few more could be added to that list, if and when they have trained more then one group of animals, or more then a few individuals.
Regards,
Wade Burck
from: Jim Stockley
A very interesting blog Mr Burck and a fascinating discussion on male lions. I never knew Bongo's background before, he was one of six males that came here for "Ghost & Darkness". Regarding the eagle picture, that's a Bateleur Eagle(Terathopius ecaudatus), rather than "Battler" I think?
Jim,
Welcome. Although I have never met you, I of course know of you. And from you Wade, is sufficient greeting.
I was originally to come with the lions for that movie. There was a delay is production for some reason, which I don't recall now. Maybe trouble finding the needed number of lions as I recall. Mike did a good job with Bongo, and eventually we all run into a "one in a million" animal. I met that one 3 years ago myself. During the "delay" I trained a group of pigs for the Toronto Zoo, and on completion went back to Ringling, and GGW's tigers. Not going to Africa, is on my list of life's regrets.
You of course, are spot on about the spelling of Bateleur Eagle, it was all a spoof on 100% CASE CLOSED CORRECT. As the photo was originally from the old London Zoo I opted to stay British and took the flying eagle picture off of a modern British photographers site where he is selling "Battler Eagle © Ellis #4198041" for 37.40 pounds. Have you done much work with Harpy's? I have practiced Falconry since I was 15, but with the regulations as they are now, never had much chance to go beyond Red-tail Hawks, and Prairie Falcons.
Regards and be safe, my best to your family,
Wade
Darryl,
In regards to Bongo helping Mike with Bowmanville Zoo, I think Mike would give kudos to a man named Al Neigie and a lady named Leslie with making the Sunday, but Bongo did indeed put the cherry on the Sunday.
Wade
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