Ben, with all due respect I have listened and watched the "tape" hundreds of times. And I only interpret one thing, and one thing only on it. But I may be wrong. I suggest the "repercussions" will be felt forever, and most likely will never go away. It is available on You Tube, as well as other "sites", so it is not necessary to print it here. Anyone interested, can listen/watch it and come to their own conclusions.
Animal rights group targets circus
Cites treatment of elephants
By Matthew Spina NEWS STAFF REPORTER
Updated: 06/05/08 6:38 AM
With a circus arriving in Hamburg next week, People for the Ethical Treatment for Animals is seeking an Erie County law banning the use of bullhooks, electric prods and other devices used to control elephants.
The Legislature would be unable to approve such a law in time for the circus visit Wednesday and next Thursday at the Hamburg Fairgrounds. But PETA will still call attention to what it sees as cruel treatment of elephants by the Carson & Barnes Circus.
Carson & Barnes is touring upstate New York and about 200 locations this year. PETA is dogging the circus along its route to alert legislators and other government officials and to call attention to a hidden-camera videotape.
The video, shot at least 10 years ago, shows Carson & Barnes trainer Tim Frisco controlling elephants inside a barn with a bullhook and a prod and telling other handlers to hurt the elephants until they scream or to sink a bullhook into their skin as needed.
PETA made a similar appeal in Western New York in 2006, when Carson & Barnes was planning performances in Jamestown, Lockport, Batavia and Angelica. PETA that year sent letters to the Niagara County and Genesee County legislatures and to officials in Jamestown and Angelica, urging them to ban bullhooks, electric prods and other devices “commonly used to inflict pain on elephants.”
“The use of bullhooks results in pain, suffering and trauma, including lacerations, puncture wounds and abscesses,” PETA’s Lisa Wathne, a “captive exotic animal specialist,” says in a letter to the Erie County Legislature. “Although elephants’ skin appears tough, it is so sensitive that elephants can feel the pain of an insect bite.”
Frisco was suspended pending an investigation by an outside attorney hired by the circus and by the U. S. Department of Agriculture, which enforces the federal Animal Welfare Act.
“You have a guy screaming absolutely awful language at other trainers,” said Ben Trumble, an animal behaviorist hired by the circus. “What you are viewing on the video doesn’t amount to too much, which is why, when the USDA viewed the video, there were no major repercussions.”
On the video, the elephants are making noises. PETA says they are screaming; Trumble says they are “vocalizing.” But Trumble says you don’t see the elephants making noises because of anything Frisco does.
Frisco still works as a trainer for Carson & Barnes, and the circus still uses bullhooks, a standard tool used by elephant handlers for 4,000 years to control their direction, not to inflict pain, Trumble said. It’s about 2 feet long with a hook on one end to tug on an elephant’s leg and guide it.
Trumble says PETA has been using the videotape for years.
“They contact each community several weeks in front of the show,” Trumble said, “and they propose restrictions. It’s a media play because they know that two weeks out or 10 days out there is no time for any legislative body to give any serious consideration to an ordinance or restriction or to hear evidence for both sides. But they do get a news story out of it.”
Another spokesman for the circus, Harry Dubsky, said that when Carson & Barnes arrives in Hamburg with three elephants next week it will also bring its standard canopy, to provide the animals relief from the sun, and a misting system to keep them cool.
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18 comments:
Wade, I'm going to duck out of this particular discussion. For a number of years I've been discussing that tape at the behest of the show -- however it's not something I talk about for fun. I'm not trying to avoid a touchy subject, but from a purely professional position suffice to say that I try to do my job well.
Ben,
I appreciate and respect that, but the elephant post kind of sounded like an ax to grind, and the "patch" of sirens and storm sounded valid to me given it was an African that was fleeing. I was just wondering what a "patch" is, and what validates one.
Wade
I understand the reasons behind defending one's business to the press, but that tape made my blood run cold when I saw it years ago - it was not just hyperbole, but something that is not at all uncommon, and nothing better illustrates the do-it-or-else mentality that may seem perfectly justified inside the business. But, to the vast majority of the public handling animals in that manner is unacceptable and further confirms everything Peta has said on the subject. My biggest surprise is that with everyone carrying portable video recording devices on their cell phones, they need to rely on that old video.
Anonymous,
You don't think there wasn't a lot of shuttering and butt puckering when that tape broke. Shortly after is when the nonsense of them, being like children, and part of the family came in to the vocabulary. I suggest it may have made people realize they better be careful. Most of the people with videos and cameras go home to sleep. It is the Tom Ryders who stick around longer. Don't think for a minute that there are not other tapes waiting for the right time.
Wade
I wonder if there are other tapes given that people are so quick to post their videos on YouTube. Often before the story even hits the major networks, it's up on YT.
On a personal note, I once conspired with a clown to video 'Lisa' being shocked with a stun gun in the genitals before she went on. Some days it went on for 5 straight minutes without stopping. After getting the camera all set up in the window of said clown's motorhome that was parked facing the backdoor, sure as shit a circus fan was visiting that day and there was no pre-act prep.
It's dangerous for shows to hire workers that have the smarts and means to run video cameras.
Ian,
Chill out, and relax. I only ran this post because, I want you to tell me what the hell a "stun gun" is? Think carefully, because this question may be the one that qualifies you, or gets you censored for a while, and be careful with names. Including animals. In my book it is even more important to respect them.
Wade
Again in fairness I would suggest that when anybody posts something like "I once..." then goes on to describe an inappropriate behavior it's important to offer some time frame. If "I once" happened last week, or last year, or the year before that it references one thing, if it was ten years ago or fifteen years ago it references another. Thirty years ago I trained dogs using the koehler method. Sometimes I would literally hang a dog until it lost bladder control if it was behaving aggressively toward other dogs. I wasn't being intentionally inhumane, I was following the standard protocols I'd learned in a training class. It ain't how I train dogs now.
Ben,
Chill partner. I think by naming the elephant, and the shows we can get a pretty good time "reference." Damn we didn't pin you down that much, in elephant running post, but I had 3 people call me who knew who you were referencing. I read hunting books as a child Ben, and remember I told you about me shooting a hawk, as a lark when I was 13? The books didn't tell me to throw the 30/06 in the river, but I did. I don't hunt any more, but I approve of hunting to this day, as long as it is done ethically and by the rules/laws set.
Wade
LOL...I'm not looking for a year, just a Century
Stun gun - not a hot shot - 40,000 volts the offender used to brag.
Ian
O.K., no names, but I will say this - when I asked one of the owners why they didn't hire someone who knew how to work the un-named animal properly, the answer was "but who will we get to drive the bull truck?"
OK, I'm going to shut up, because I've come to learn that any discussion of the truth ends up sounding like a Peta ad. I think I must have read just about every circus book and animal trainer biography ever written, starting when I was about 10. I never realized until I actually went to work for a circus at 17 (and came and went for the next 20 years) that in all the books, not once did I ever read the truth. So, that might be a source of my animosity towards the business that I have an addictive fascination for.
Ian
Ian,
In regards to the "stun gun", and 40,000 volts, BUZZZZ. Wrong answer. I suggest unfortunately you were told a wrong answer by somebody obviously grandstanding and who had other issues/problems. I not by any means condoning what you "may" have seen, but no more posts until you have something valid, provable or can convince me you are not "grinding a personal ax."
Wade
Ian,
I apologize. I did not realize they were called "stun guns" and "tasers" now. When they were prevalent in the 70's they were called hot shot's, and I didn't realize the name had changed. Yes, they are used in the shifting of cattle in the rodeo and feed lots, and they are a quick, humane way to move an "untrained"(key word) animal quickly and safely through chute systems.
Wade
A tazer, hot shot and stun gun are all differnt things. A hot shot has two electrical connections that both need to make contact. A tazer fires tiny darts attached to fine wires to deliver the current. A stun gun is a personal protection device for disabling attackers and the current travels between the two electrodes. A hot shot is a mild shock that is not much more than an annoyance even to humans. Tazers and stun guns will actually cause a human to drop to the ground - don't know what it feels like to an elephant
Distinct difference between a "hot shot" or any other electric livestock prod and a personal protection device like a stun gun. Stun gun is intended to disable, while prods from companies like Miller Manufacturing are aversion tools more akin to touching an electric livestock fence. An uncomfortable pulse, but not intended to debilitate. Used properly a prod is intended to be a humane tool for moving animals. used improperly a prod results in unnecessary stress. A stun gun on the other hand, working at a much higher voltage with a much longer pulse cycle can cause serious injury. Tasers, stun guns that fire from a distance have been associated with deaths in humans. The livestock prods sold at feed stores aren't by any stretch stun guns. The smallest prod, the power mite fits in a pocket, which may cause some confusion. For all their practical application as a humane tool for moving animals, electric prods aren't strictly necessary for animal management and were never intended to be used as a training tool. The only true training tools that use the same electrical aversion principle would be electronic collars sold for dogs. Having brother, and growing up around electric fences and prods, I would not have survived had they been stun guns. Type "hotshot" into Google and the products will be entirely different than thoses listed when you type "stun gun."
I see the anonymous are getting out of hand. I should have suspected it. The new "anonymous" was posted as they had a point about hot shots and stun guns, but no pride, and probably something to hid. Get a name Pal, and come back.
I hope Ian will be back, with useful insight, but no names. I am rethinking animal names, as it may be a small way to "make it up to them." I'm not sure, and I need to think about that a bit longer.
Wade
Ian,
I appreciate all your concerns, but due to the anger you feel, justified or not, I can't let it go here. If you would care to correspond privately, perhaps I can give you a different perspective which may help you to look at the other side. wburck3@aol.com
Regards,
Wade
Hey what's with all the anonymous's posting,I thought that was against "the rules." As for the taser,stun gun debate,having never been hit by either one of these,I can only comment on what I have seen on t.v.,and it looks like it hurts,alot....Having been hit by a hot shot,many times,both intended and unintended(LOL) I must agree with Ben,it is an uncomfortable pulse,like touching an electric fence(which I have also done,LOL)
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