Conversing with a "public relations/media major/booking agent. The Key Word? Misdirection

Alexis Kaiser

I've had the extreme pleasure of working with the Laceys and seeing Circus Krone. Bravo for them showing how the cats are really treated. Let the animal zealots take this out of context. Nothing but love, kindness and respect here.

circus lions stress test

www.youtube.com

Vinnie Sanchez WOW! Lex... that was awesome! As you know I'm not a circus person (except in my private life) but DID have people protesting Petting Zoos, etc. at my Car Sales... I'm sure there are some bad ones out there but I truly believe the majority have nothing but care and compassion... great video!
January 8 at 8:21pm

Alexis Kaiser Thanks Vinman. Just time for people to see the other side. This is what I experienced with my time at the circus. I met Martin several years ago at Circus Krone, really nice and great lion trainer. Thanks for posting. LUV YOU
January 8 at 9:26pm

Holly Shaw Some wonderful people taking care of the animals for sure, some not so much. They just shouldn't be there is all.
January 9 at 7:10am

Wade Burck

Was this really a valid, accurate test, or a promotional glass of kool-aid? It stated the cotton was "saturated" with saliva, saturated defined as "holding as much water or moisture as can be absorbed; thoroughly soaked." None of the cotton looked saturated to me, in fact occasionally Martin had to really scrutinize one to see if it had anything. They showed a graph from 4 animals out of 13 or 14. Did they show animals that had been in traveling for over a dozen years, or new animals that had only traveled a short time? A lot of supposition all through the clip. Were they uncomfortable with the vet being there upon arrival in Munich? Possibly, or were they uncomfortable due to the trip? That is also a possibility that was not mentioned. Why was it important to have a vet on hand for the conclusion, but not at the start of the test? The cortisone levels of the only 4 animals mentioned rose but were below stress levels which was stated "as the point" but no thought given as to why they rose, or why "some" rose was in fact, 3 out of 4 tested. It seems like one of those test's where you were going to know the outcome before it was tested. Ar groups do similar test's with the opposite result.
The point is, if someone is "hoping" for a certain result, should they be doing the test? Most glaring to me, what animals were tested, old or new and why 4 subjects out of 14 were tested to arrive at a favorable conclusion?
January 15 at 11:58am

Alexis Kaiser Points duly noted. Why don't you ask Martin or Susan. You know them right?
January 15 at 2:20pm

Wade Burck Yes I do, but what would be the point, and would that then make it a valid test? Hopefully a true scientific test will be conducted some day soon involving all animals, not just a few in a select situation.
January 15 at 2:52pm

Alexis Kaiser I think they would have some of your answers. Maybe one day we will live in that perfect world. But in this case, at least someone is trying to dispell the myth that all animals in the circus are under undue stress, abused and just all around horribly treated.
January 15 at 4:46pm

Wade Burck

Alexis, "at least someone?" They have been doing similar stress test's since the late 80's when Dr. Ted Friend from Texas A & M conducted a number of them. All inconclusive as they were short term studies, such as this one, on a select group of animals in a select situation. Not the whole in a long term traveling situation. The "myths" can be dispelled with facts, not fluff, if and when such studies are conducted. We want to be careful we don't embrace the wrong thing, least we look like we don't know what we are talking about, as opposed to not caring. I'm just saying........
January 15 at 7:53pm

Alexis Kaiser

Well, it's the first I heard of someone running these tests and publicizing them on something as huge as YOU TUBE for the "general public" to see. I would only hope that more research is done under the proper circumstances, whatever those may be, I'm not a scientist, I'm a booking agent, to prove OR NOT that animals are just fine being used in the circus. I think that Susan and Martin are headed in the right direction, at least. Maybe someone with more money can pick up the ball and run with it in whatever the proper fashion would be. Right now, the animals rights people are winning the war on animals in circus. I applaud the Laceys in their attempt to bring light to the subject. Rome wasn't built in a day. Maybe the right people will take notice and this is something that could be studied further.
January 15 at 8:21pm

Wade Burck

Alexis, You tube is "huge?" It is a site for linking videos on a multitude of subjects, over 90% "self promotional," no scientific fact, or any fact necessary for that matter. They want, no they beg the general public to "see." This clip was downloaded by Circus Unite a fan organization that has videos form Pinder, Chipperfield, Great British Circus, Steibner, etc. etc. Concerned folks have referenced the available studies done years earlier. When "public training sessions" are staged they aren't to teach. They are to provide a photo op for publicity, with everyone on their best behavior. Yes, I have done a few. With training carried on almost daily, one session out of 100 doesn't give the public any thing more then a smell of what the whole process is.
January 15 at 8:58pm

Holly Shaw I bet you I could find a study which finds the complete opposite. Who paid for and ran the study, etc.? There are just too many variables. Animals belong in their natural environment.
January 15 at 9:32pm

Alexis Kaiser

Holly, we will always agree to disagree on this one. Any study, anywhere, can produce the results one is looking for. Wade, you don't think YOU TUBE is huge. It made Justin Bieber a star. Do you know how many people are subscribed to it. Do you know that social networking has changed the face of marketing, the way we get information. Yes, its just as slanted as television, radio and newspaper, but YOU TUBE, statistically is huge. As for begging the general public to "see", the beauty of YOU TUBE is that you can look at what you want, there is more choice here. You can argue scietific testting with me all you want. I am not a scientist. But, I was a public relations major and media, well, lets just say...I'm probably a little more well-versed on it than the average person. YOU TUBE is huge.
January 15 at 10:57pm

Wade Burck

Alexis, It is "huge" for creating what you want, just as you state with Justin Bieber, and dozens and dozens of others. "Well, it's the first I heard of someone running these tests and publicizing them on something as huge as YOU TUBE for the "general public" to see." That's a no brainer with this particular clip as it is a no brainer to post "feel good" Justin Bieber clips if you want to make a star. I'm pretty familiar with public relations, also. Like animal training, probably a little more well-versed on it then the average person. That's why I saw this as pure pr and am surprised you didn't see that also having majored in the craft. Most of the public saw it for what it was and endorsing such continues to give the impression "wool is being pulled over the public's eyes." Lets wait(hopefully not to much longer) for a legitimate study to be done that we can rightfully embrace. We all think our friends are the best. That doesn't mean they are right. No, Holly animals don't belong in their natural environment. There is none. It's gone or monitored and managed by humans. That's not "natural" any more. They(animals) do deserved the best life possible, but it is not their "right." Who "paid for and ran the study?" Read the credits at the end of the clip. The show Martin is on, the show Martins brother is on, the show Martins father owns in England, to name a few. I'm a real surprised Alexis with a major missed that???
January 16 at 7:01am

Holly Shaw

Just because animals don't have rights as dictated by our legal world, doesn't mean they don't in universal law. And they do still have a natural environment, albeit eroded by man. I did not watch the video, because it wouldn't matter to me. Now I don't have a real problem with zoos so much as they run breeding programs to bring some species back from near extinction, and they teach children about the animal world and all it's marvels. At least they are educational in some way, but not perfect either....Alexis I love you pal. This and God are our only differences and that's OK ;-).
January 16 at 8:59am

Alexis Kaiser

Well someone had to pay for the study. I read the credits. What in your opinion constitutes a real, scientific, unbiased study. NO such thing as there is the human condition that will always be involved in any study. Wade, everything in life is pretty much POV. Mine was that a well-known circus family was trying to defend the postiion of animals in the circus. YOUR POV of the piece was different. I think we should leave it at that. Just like Holly (my best friend of over twenty years) do not agree on the use of animals in the circus. I highly doubt that man has ruined and/is managing all the wild in the wolrd. Maybe someone will come along in the circus industry and fund a lifelong study on stress on circus animals, I doubt it. No one is even stepping up for legal fees while the Animal Rigihts people slaughter one of the last great American traditions in America or Europe for that matter....a circus with animals
January 16 at 10:34am

Holly Shaw Well said Alexis..until you got to the "tradition" part ;-). It was a tradition to have slaves also, but we realized it was a bad thing. We are supposed to be an evolving species...capable of change,hopefully in a better direction. The circus had it's day. Maybe it's time for a change.
January 16 at 10:46am

Alexis Kaiser Tradition like baseball. I should have said good old fashioned traditions. That being said, did you know that when Lincoln emancipated the slaves, a lot of them stayed with their families because that is the life they knew and a lot were treated well.
January 16 at 10:49am

Wade Burck Holly, Once barriers are put up, animals are supplement fed, relocated, and birth controlled it is no longer a natural environment. It become a "built environment" with the areas and components strongly influenced by humans. Many area's haven't been "natural" for hundreds of centuries.
January 16 at 2:31pm

Wade Burck

You are right about tradition, Holly. It doesn't condone or justify anything. It's not an ego. It is 35 years of dealing with captive animals. I might know a bit more about their emotions and why they react or don't react. There used to be a tradition where women had no voting rights. Should it still be around because it was a tradition? The slave's stayed because they were too scared to venture out in the world, Alexis. Battered persons are often times afraid to leave the abusive situation. Like an animal they are comfortable with what they know. The unknown will frighten them into inactivity.
January 16 at 2:41pm

Alexis Kaiser

Wade - I think you are egotistically making blanket statements about things that most people will agree to never agree upon. In my opinion, the Laceys are kind and good hearted people. I believe their video was well intended. If you have a problem with that, it's your problem, not mine. That being said, the conversation is over as you obviously are so much smarter than anyone else that its pointless to converse with you any more. If you are so fucking knowledgeable, then why don't you run the tests on captive animals, publish the results and enlighten the world. You talk as if you are the only person who knows anything about anything. I'm done.
January 16 at 5:19pm

Wade Burck Alexis, At no point did I ever suggest that the Laceys were not kind and good hearted people. I never said their video was not well intended. I said it was not an accurate, valid test. I think the ego's are in two other directions.
January 16 at 8:52pm

'Fact are very unsettling, in the world of misdirection, aren't they?'