A majority of pictures of animals from the old day's you will note the are as far away as possible from the human/photographer. A "learned colleague" of our's, who is a fan of the old style fighting acts with "36 years in the trenches", discovered something that dumbfounded him, and he has labeled it "palatial space", and is advocating it to the profession. I don't want to point out to him or his admirers that Dr. Heidiger wrote about that "amazing behavior" in the 1950's, and called it "flight distance." The majority of his career has been spent moving from act to act of "trained" animals. Last year he had the opportunity to work with a couple of "green", as they are called yearling tigers. That's when he made his amazing discovery!!!! If you approach/crowd them they move/go away. If you quit crowding, they will stop and stay where they are at!!!!!!! He is "labeled" a trainer, and after 36 years discovered what the rest of us have known, at least from Dr. Heidigers book, if you didn't discover it the first day you ever dealt with an animal. What is a "trainer" and what is a "trick/behavior"? I was 19 when I "assisted" with the sitting up of a 6 year old tiger. A collar was put on his neck and was attached to a block and tackle in the ceiling of the training barn. When the command was given, I pulled the rope, and the tiger sat up, and by the end of the day sat up with out the collar. But only on his pedestal and never ever on the floor or anyplace else. I respected this "trainer", in fact named my oldest son after him, but I almost made the decision that day, that if this is what "animal training is, I don't want any part of it." But I was able to learn that if you use younger animals, and spend a month using a T bar to put their front feet on with the aid of a reward(Pavlov came up with that revelation), when they are mature and have developed the physical/mental ability they can sit up on their own off the pedestal, any place you want to sit them. It's called evolving from the old ways. Much like "bronc buster" who have become "horse whisperers." We can respect the Civil war field surgeon, but we must be careful that we don't emulate and respect too much. Today we perform amputations with the aid of anesthetics, and not a slug of whiskey.
The tired question, but I will keep asking, What is "training", and what is a "Trainer?"
Saturday, April 26, 2008
There was no need apparently to elaborate, as in the case of Gwendolyn, so it is just Hyena
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Wade G. Burck
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6 comments:
Very nice commentary Wade. It is amazing how far ahead Dr. Hediger was and all he did was pay attention to his animals and not accept what they are supposed to be. Your tiger story reminds me of an elephant I work with some time ago. I was told by her "trainer" that she was stupid and couldn't learn anything. When I started handling her I noticed something in her. I took a chance and did it differently and I'm happy to say that she and I learned alot together and she can do it all. That doesn't make me anything special except that I was willing to give her a chance to show me what she had. In the zoo I get alot of 24 and unders that come in with their copy of "Don't Shoot the Dog" and alot of unlearned opinions. You can't fault enthusiasum but it can be annoying. I usually take their book and give them one of mine (usually Hediger or Hans Brick for starters) to show them that those methods aren't new they just go by a different name. Some may find this silly that I make perspective animal handlers read but I am a student of animal training and the men and women that came before me and I would like them to know the evolution of our profession. And not just elephants, I think you know my interest is all over the place, including rodeo, pro bull riding and La Fiesta Brava (bullfighting in Spain and rejoneo in Portugal). Now before anyone gets the inpression that I think I am some teacher, rest assured I have no illusions. What I am is passionate, as passionate today at 37 as I was as a 14 year old Jr. zookeeper being attacked by a 5 foot tall Ground Hornbill. I respect the past and want the future to be brighter.
Here is one of my favorite comments from Baucher: "Perfection lay in purity- the purity of a simple movement rather than the execution of complicated movements that thrill the philistine". Thanks.
Joey,
First of all, WHO are you to bring your measly 22 years "in the trenches" against my 34 years "in the trenches", who the hell do you think you are. I am the only one who can make sense. I don't know where people like you and Kimberly get the idea you can. LOL Joey, because you did something different, and not only did it succeed but succeeded better then expected, don't apologize for a pat one the back. This isn't a circus blog, so we give those out willingly for achievements/new methods in the animal world. And trust me, I will not mistake your pride for arrogance, or your confidence for cockiness. I have extensive literature on fighting cocks, may not condone the sport but the breeding of, the colors of, the lineage history of various lines, is absolutely fascinating. It's about the animals, Joey. Just like rejoneo and bullfighting. It is a fascination that AR activist will never understand. It is the mystery of animals and what they can do. I don't know if I like those black French cows as much as I like a fine white Charolais, no offense at the color deal, Joey. And some of the Brahmas they are breeding in Mexico and Spain are something. Don't get me going on Falconry. I've often said, anybody who wants to be an animal trainer, should first have to train a falcon. Then we will see how much patience and understanding you have. Strike him out of anger, and he fly's away, and you never see him again. You learn less physical is much better. Time will work it out, to the advantage of both bird and trainer.
Your Baucher quote is what Dianne Olds said in a heated horse discussion in the other house. Doing something perfect and beautiful, instead of difficult and not pretty. 1 out of 25 capriolls are executed with that beauty and perfection. Don't do it. But the 1 that is perfection, do it, and do it proper, and the Philistine's will be on their feet. First take the time to develop the skill necessary for that perfection, and search for the right individual animal. Don't assume they all can, and by God you will show them. Better we go back to simpler purity. And questioning something is not disrespecting it. It's looking for a better answer. Joey, did you see the thread where I asked for your opinion on "training"?
Wade Burck
The subject of training is an engaging subject and I am finding it much more constructive here than on Buckle's blog where it became a shouting match. Not being a trainer of any animal besides horses, I never really imaged how one would train a lion, tiger, falcon or any other species (once my dog looks at me with doe eyes it's all over and baby tigers were to hold and cuttle) I find it amazing that if I had thought about it or had been around them, I would have seen the light. Not that I would have tried it but it's the interest in training animals that's addictive.
Long discussions of animal behavior, horse and other species made me realize how I was training. I know we all train differently, my mind seems to click all in place when I throw my leg over a horse or take the reins in my hands with no thought, it's all feel, the thinking comes later on how to do it better. Albert was a technician, always thinking and building something in his mind. Dorita was a gentle soul who's petite body encouraged the horse gently, Papa Konyot wanted it perfect and quiet.I was thrilled to have ridden his last high school horse with his instruction even though I was a young whipper snapper, it was invaluable to me. John Cuneo gave me my first taste of liberty horses and the directive, "you shall wear gloves" and yes I do LOL. He introduced me to the circus and some of the great riders, I am forever grateful.
To Wade I thank for the long discussions of animal behavior and the privilege of watching a gentle man coach horses running free to bend to his will eagerly. He made me think how to react to animals without a touch but through suggestions, I watched a great trainer at work and yes I will admit I stole every trick I saw. LOL. Thanks Wade.
Some years ago I did a stint as a 'private' dog trainer, in that I went to rich peoples houses and worked with their dogs - kind of like the new celebrity dog trainers do. My lack of success at this venture was less about ability and more in my inability to give flowery descriptions of what I did, and basically bullshit the owners into buying more and more sessions.
I can't remeber any dogs that hadn't already been to training classes already and had contact with various other charletans in the biz.
What I found that it was best to ignore anything else that had already been done, and just start doing things my way from day one - there might be a short period of confusion, but focusing on undoing bad habits is more confusing than just enforcing good ones. Same thing when I gathered up pound strays to get suitable dogs for TV commercial work. There was no way of knowing what had caused undesirable things such as timidness. Better just to pretend the dog wasn't as damaged as it was and start doing it my way.
I've found the same thing with horses with bad habits - I'd just pretend they were new colts who had never learned to pick up their feet, cross tie, etc and begin teaching in the same baby steps as I'd use with the little guys. It's the only way I've found to convince an animal that things aren't as scary as they think and consequenses will never agin be as sever as what they may have experienced in the past.
There as animals, of course that never seem to fully recover enough from previous bad experiences and are pretty hopeless for what I was looking for. Aggression towards people and fighting are two of them - what do you guys think?
Just my couple pennies worth, although somewhat unrelated to the topic at hand.
Kim
It is a rarity that I get a horse for training that isn't with me for a reason. Two come to mind one a beautiful red Andalusian, a real sweetheart but his mind had been totally fried. The previous "trainer!" had begun his training with what they called "dancing" and very big spurs, omitting the very ground work that any animal requires. I had him only for a few months but I was able to at least tell him a pat was calming and he was good, that whips were not always always bad and riding sometimes was just a jaunt in the countryside. I was only able to suggest these things to the horse and in time perhaps I could have changed him but in the end I can only hope I gave the incite to the owner how he must proceed.
I agree also that good trainers sometimes don't have the marketing bull-crap that goes into today's world and those way less qualified because they have those skills go to the forefront. It is life.
Kimberly,
As I have stated before, I learned more from Dianne Olds Rossi in one year, then I had learned in the previous 30. But in this case, I have to disagree with her suggestion, that suggesting to the horse that whips and spurs were not bad, was the most important suggestion. I would suggest, that the most important suggestion is a monkey sitting on the horse who will listen to learned suggestions, so that the whip and spur suggestion makes sense. But that's just my suggestion. There, I gave you some of that high-dollar flowery/marketing/bullshit/bullcrap for free. I also suggest the Nez Perz chieftain had a pretty good idea of what was going on, when he decided to ride that black and white beauty. That's why he put him in the water, until he could build a round pen. In fact Xenophon wrote a pretty good manual titled THE ART OF HORSEMANSHIP in 322 BC. If those people who think the are witnessing a miracle done by a "whisperer" haven't gotten it by now, I suggest they won't.
Wade
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