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I received this photo above from Flint, along with this note:
Dear Wade-
Attached is a Charlie Puck photo taken in Los Angeles, CA in 1924
of the Barnes show cages. Note the den in the right hand side and
compare it to the Cole/Robbins Hippo Tab. The paintings on the
coverboards match the carvings on the tableau wagon. Also, some of the
carvings on both wagons are the same. The explanation is that Barnes
purchased "excess" carvings from the wagon manufacturer when they closed
up shop. The carvings were then applied to the Barnes wagons in
winterquarters to dress them up a bit.
FLINT
I then sent this email to Bobby Cline:
Bobby,
Do you happen to have a photo, or know where one could be found of the Cole/Robbins Hippo Tab, showing the sideboards?
Thank you,
Wade
Do you happen to have a photo, or know where one could be found of the Cole/Robbins Hippo Tab, showing the sideboards?
Thank you,
Wade
Bobby kindly responds with these two photo's and this note handing the ball off to RJR:
Wade,
Photo 51E (above) is the Hippo den that is now rebuilt and existing at
CWM. This photo was taken in 1937.
Photo 71F (below) was taken in 1940. This should the old John Robinson
cage. I'm sure that Richard can provide a better scope of details on these
two.
Hope this helps. If not let me know and I'll look some
more.
Bob
'I'm sorry, Flint. Is it just me, because I don't see any similarities in the cover boards "from the den on the right hand side" compared to the Cole/Robbins Hippo Tab, which is apparently the second photo (15E 1937) sent by Bobby Cline per my request for a "Cole/Robbins Hippo Tab" picture. I also don't note any similar carvings on either the "den on the right hand side" or the "Cole/Robbins Hippo Tab" picture (15E 1937) sent by Bobby Cline.
Bobby also sent a second photo per my request for a picture of the Cole/Robbins Hippo tab of the John Robinson hippo cage (third photo above 17F 1940) Robbins, Robinson are they the same circus with different spellings, for no other reason then to confuse? If that is the case, I don't see any similarities in either the cover boards or carvings to "the den in the right hand side" in the top photo.
Gentlemen, I awoke at 3:00 AM this morning in the middle of Morales, Mexico with my brain scrambled eggs after a fitful night of f**king circus wagons rolling through my head. I spent half a lifetime entertaining you in the steel bound den of fury, and I don't deserve this kind of treatment!! And you John Goodall, who are in a position to see that a bank set's up some sort of "intervention trust fund" for folks interested in circus history, just sit there and do nothing. At this moment there is some poor chap on the "history channel" thinking he might want to start a circus collection. Don't you care what is going to happen to him, Goodall? I think there is enough proof here that, indeed, there is a conspiracy to drive a close to feeble old man completely into the abyss. Flint and Cline, my attorneys will be in touch with you gentlemen shortly. "Hope this helps. Let me know and I'll look some more." I'm letting you know Bobby, look some more.' :)
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8 comments:
Wade,
Steve and Bob are only trying to get you down the trail of what happens when one wagon is taken apart and various pieces are used on other wagons and then further taken apart for another round of changes, ad infinitum.
Bob Kitto
Bob,
I contacted my attorney with your suggestion that they were just trying to help me. He said, and I quote "not likely. It looks this Kitto chap is just trying to bail them out of the lawsuit. He's probably part of the conspiracy. We'll keep an eye on him, in case he need's to be served also." Unquote
Wade
Wade- No, it's not you it's Bob Cline. The photo's he sent you are NOT the Hippo Tab. but rather the Hippo Den(s) that Cole used.
The Hippo TAB was a baggage wagon with carvings on the outside to dress it up.
The Hippo DEN is a cage wagon with an actual hippo on the inside. Bob sent photos of 2 entirely different wagons!
FLINT
Here is what memory tells me about these two hippo wagons.
The bay window one now in Boo City was built for Fred Buchanan’s Robbins Bros in the late 1920s. When his show folded, its equipment remained in the Granger, Iowa quarters until Adkins and Terrell bought it for their new 1935 Cole Show. The hippo wagon went to Cole at that time but they had no hippo to put in it. So Cole went hit the road in ’35 sans hippo.
For 1936 A & T bought the common or Nile hippo "Pinky" from RBBB. Pinky was in Peru doing nothing in 1936 since no show went out of there that year. Peru had a surplus of hippos - -male Victor and females Alice and Pinky.
Pinky had been born to Alice on July 18, 1928 while en route on Hagenbeck Wallace from Racine WI to Marinette, WI across the river from Menominee, MI.
Pinky arrived on Cole at its South Bend stand in 1936. Gordon Potter was there when the truck with the hip rolled onto the lot. The Cole circus guys told Gordon that she had come from the Brookfield zoo. A squib to that effect was also in Billboard.
That was pure bunk and caused me no end of useless inquiry with the zoo. No - - they said that the Brookfield zoo had never had any hippo named Pinky. I knew the animal had to be the one from H-W because the late Dr. Bill Mann at National zoo told me his Pinky had been born on H-W.
Then I found the answer. The Tom Parkinson files in Boo City have the list of RBBB property disposals for 1936. There big as life was this entry. "May 9, 1936: Hippo Cole Bros, $2,000 ($1,000 due June 1)."
All I can say is that Adkins and Terrell did not want to let on that they had gotten Pinky from the dreaded Ringling show.
Pinky last toured with Cole in 1938 - -part of that season on the Cole show and the last part with Robbins Bros where I saw her in the parade here in Atlanta. She rode in the familiar bay window hip den. At some point while with Cole, that wagon was lengthened by several feet. 1938 was the last year the bay window den was used on Cole, and it was put aside - -later discovered rotting away in a pig pen near Rochester, IN.
Here's the rest of my story.
The next year Cole traded Pinky to the Nat'l zoo (Washington) for a pygmy hip. The pygmy went out with Cole in 1939. For the smaller hippo, Cole used a much smaller wagon. It had some carvings as I recall and was used in Cole’s 1939 parade, its last. There are photos of it in Bradbury’s history of the Cole show (BW - -1960s). I must figure that A & T wanted a smaller wagon to allow for more loading room on the flats.
The pygmy hippo for sure (and I think its smaller wagon) burned up in the Rochester WQ in early 1940. Cole then turned to RBBB again and North loaned them his Chester, a female who had also been born to Alice on HW-FS in Chester, PA in 1935. Victor was the sire of Chester.
With Chester came the 1929 John Robinson hippo den that later saw service on H-W. RBBB seems to have sold Cole the wagon but only leased hippo Chester.
The ex-JR/H-W wagon was on Cole thereafter until its demise as a railroad show in 1950. It was converted to a semi-trailer and saw duty on the Kelly-Morris opera. In time Bob Snowden got hold of the hip and its trailer. He showed it around on various shows, including some carneys, as I recall.
Snowden talked the Collins-McClosky-Kernan owned Beatty show into buying both the hippo and its semi. The last evidence I had of the latter’s existence is a photo showing it in the DeLand quarters.
Beatty (soon to be Beatty-Cole) built a new hippo semi for use as a pit show attraction. The old JR/H-W must have been scrapped in Deland.
In 1943 Cole had gotten a young female hippo born in the Cincinnati zoo. When that happened, Chester was returned to RBBB by sending her to Peru. The next year (1944) she was shipped to Sarasota.
The new Cole hippo would go on to fame with the Beatty show under the mannish name "Big Otto," though not a male at all. She died from injuries sustained when her trailer turned over with Beatty-Cole around 1975. She would have been about 32 or 33 at the time, fairly young for a hippo.
RJR,
From Buckles Blog March 1, 2007: "Now you know all that I know about these hippos." Yeah, right RJR. Fat f**k*ng chance of that happening. Or as Ole Whitey said: "No one will ever know as much as you, Friend Richard."
"There was no hippo on Cole in 1935. For 1936 they bought the common or Nile hippo "Pinky" from RBBB. Pinky was in Peru doing nothing in 1936 since no show went out of there that year. Peru had a surplus of hippos - -male Victor and females Alice and Pinky.
Pinky had been born to Alice on July 18,1928 while en route on Hagenbeck Wallace from Racine WI to Marinette, WI across the river from Menominee, MI. Sire was Sells Floto's Tambon. [I had wrongly thought that Victor was the sire but he was with John Robinson down at West Baden qtrs. when the calf was conceived whereas Tambon was right there in Peru, Johnny on the spot as it were.]
Pinky arrived on Cole at its South Bend stand in 1936. Gordon Potter was there when the truck with the hip rolled onto the lot. The Cole circus guys told Gordon that she had come from the Brookfield zoo. A squib to that effect was also in Billboard.
That was pure bunk and caused me no end of useless inquiry with the zoo. No - - they said Brookfield zoo had never had any hippo named Pinky. I knew the animal had to be the one from H-W because the late Dr. Bill Mann at National zoo told me his Pinky had been born on H-W.
Then I found the answer. The Tom Parkinson files in Boo City has the list of RBBB property disposals for 1936. There big as life was this entry. "May 9, 1936: Hippo Cole Bros, $2,000 ($1,000 due June 1)."
All I can say is that Adkins and Terrell did not want to let on that they had gotten Pinky from the dreaded Ringling show.
Pinky last toured with Cole in 1938. Part of that season on the Cole show and the last part with Robbins Bros where I saw her in the parade here in Atlanta.
The next year Pinky was traded to the Nat'l zoo (Washington) for a pygmy hip. The pygmy went with Cole in 1939 and then burned up in the Rochester fire in early 1940. Cole then turned ot RBBB gaain and North loaned them his Chester, a female who had also been born to Alice on HW-FS in Chestser, PA in 1935. Victor was the sire of Chester.
Chester was returned to Sarasota in early 1944 because by then Cole had bought its own hip, a young female from Cincinnati zoo. She would go on to gain fame with the Beatty show as "Big Otto" though not a male at all. She died from injures sustained when her trailer turned over with Beatty-Cole around 1975. She would have been about 32 or 33 at the time, young for a hippo.
Back to Pinky. She had a long life at National Zoo.until retired to Zoorama in New Market, VA. She was sent there on loan on 7 July 1959 and died there on 31 Dec 1960.
You mentioned Chester as the hip star of the GSOE movie. No, that was old Lotus from the Barnes show. Her cinema walk by was sort of her last hurrah. She had not toured with RBBB since 1944. She lived out her days in comfort under the Florida sunshine and died at Sarasota quarters in late October 1954 as best I can determnine."
King Surf, now you know what you are up against. You are going to have to get on your horse and ride and I mean ride hard, if you are going to be in the same Derby with King Turf.
You continue to amaze, RJR. Thank you for sharing your wealth of knowledge.
Wade
Hippo TAB? Crap, I missed that point.
Well, I'm glad, I could help enrich your day for once!
Bob
Bobby,
You have enriched my day more then once, trust me. :)
Wade
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