Monday, March 5, 2012

Don't Use The Same Broad Brush Stroke For Everybody. It Is Individual's, Not An Industry

Circo Atayde 2004

Clyde Beatty Cole Bros. 1971

King Bros. 1955

Have Trunk Will Travel Gary Johnson 2011

Ringling Bros. Blue Unit 2011

Anonymous said: "Elephant Rampages Blamed On Old Bulls, Bad Role Mo...":

In other words, an elephant is influenced by it's early experiences. So, why can it not be said that animals that came from culls or harsh capture methods and handling before they were imported and have had bad early experiences with humans wouldn't be more likely to be aggressive as they age? Also, look at the animals that have pretty much been with one trainer/act most of their lives versus show owned animals that are sold numerous times and have had every Tom, Dick and Harry have a go at them.
I've read plenty of comments over time on the other blog talking about 'bad' elephants, as though they just became bad all by themselves. The attitude seems to be that handling and method have nothing to do with outcome, and they all end up the same in the end regardless of what you do to them.
Regardless of how much study has been done on the disposition of all animals and how early handling affects them, there are still those dinasours who think once an animal finds itself in the circus, they become different entities and natural psychology no longer applies.
I suspect those are the same people who grew up in an era where the answer to every problem with their children was to "beat them til they can't sit for a week'. And, I'm not talking about general discipline. Just as that attitude is no longer tolerated with children, neither is it with animals. The images of trussed up elephants on Buckles Blog along with casual mentions of executions, throwing them overboard, etc are never accompanied by any dissaproval, and to the casual reader almost seem to be condoned. Even a statement such as "this is the way things were done before people knew what the hell they were doing" would be enough.
Within 10 years 99% of all the old timers will be gone or retired, and then what? The pictures of Ringlings baby elephant training makes it appear that they give a lot of thought to improving the early training methods, so it will be interesting to see - down the line- how those animals mature.


In other words, an elephant is influenced by it's early experiences. So, why can it not be said that animals that came from culls or harsh capture methods and handling before they were imported and have had bad early experiences with humans wouldn't be more likely to be aggressive as they age? Also, look at the animals that have pretty much been with one trainer/act most of their lives versus show owned animals that are sold numerous times and have had every Tom, Dick and Harry have a go at them.

THE 'EARLY EXPERIENCE' YOU REFER TO IS NOT A SHORT TERM SITUATION. IT IS A LONG TERM SITUATION OCCURRING OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME OF YOUNG ELEPHANTS EMULATING THE OLD BULLS. THE HARSH CAPTURE METHODS OF OLD WERE A SHORT PERIOD OF THEIR LIFE AND THERE IS NO INDICATION THAT A QUICK TRAUMATIC SITUATION CAUSES ANY LONG TERM ILL AFFECTS, ANY MORE THEN AN ANIMAL OR HUMAN BABY NEEDING MEDICAL ATTENTION WILL GROW TO BE A SOCIOPATH. YOUNG ANIMAL'S AFTER AS AN EXAMPLE, THE VACCINATION PROCESS WILL RECOGNIZE THE VETERINARIAN FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIFE AND REACT STRONGLY TO HIM/HER BECAUSE THE ONLY TIME THEY SEE THAT INDIVIDUAL, IT ISN'T PLEASANT, BUT REACT NORMALLY TO THE REST OF THE PEOPLE IN THEIR WORLD. A YOUNG CHILD TAKEN OUT OF AN ABUSIVE SITUATION EARLY IN LIFE AND PLACED IN A NURTURING FOSTER HOME WITH RARE EXCEPTIONS WILL MATURE INTO A WELL ADJUSTED ADULT. THE LONGER THE CHILD IS IN THE ABUSIVE SITUATION THE MORE CHANCE IT WILL MATURE WITH PROBLEMS. IT IS TOTALLY DEPENDENT ON HOW LONG THE TRAUMA LASTS IN THEIR LIFE.

CULLS, IF THE ISSUE'S ARE MENTAL INSTEAD OF PHYSICAL IS A DIFFERENT DEAL. I HAVE STUDIED THE 'SHOW OWNED/PRIVATE' ISSUE EXTENSIVELY AND THERE ARE EXCEPTION'S BUT THE PRIVATE OWNED ANIMALS FARE BETTER BECAUSE OF THE CONSISTENCY OF ONE HANDLER/TRAINER THROUGH THEIR LIFE INSTEAD OF A DIFFERENT TOM OR HAIRY DICK EVERY COUPLE OF YEARS. AN ANIMAL THRIVES ON CONSISTENCY AND EVEN IF YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING WRONG, IF IT IS THE SAME WRONG THING THROUGH OUT IT'S LIFE YOU ARE CONSISTENT AND THE ANIMAL WILL BE BETTER FOR IT. 93% OF ALL 'BAD' ELEPHANTS GOT THEIR INITIAL TRAINING FROM 4 INDIVIDUALS AND HAD 6 TO 7 HANDLERS IN THEIR LIFE BY THE TIME THEY WERE 19. A NUMBER OF THOSE HANDLERS DEALT WITH A NUMBER OF THE SAME 'BAD' ELEPHANTS.

THE HORSE'S USED BY 'HORSE WHISPERS' FOR THEIR CLINICS TO ILLUSTRATE THE AMAZING THINGS THAT CAN BE DONE, ARE ANIMALS THAT THEY HAVE RAISED/TRAINED FOR YEARS, USUALLY MOST OF THE ANIMALS LIFE WITH THEMSELVES BEING THE EXCLUSIVE HANDLER/TRAINER. THERE IS A REASON FOR THAT.

I've read plenty of comments over time on the other blog talking about 'bad' elephants, as though they just became bad all by themselves. The attitude seems to be that handling and method have nothing to do with outcome, and they all end up the same in the end regardless of what you do to them.
Regardless of how much study has been done on the disposition of all animals and how early handling affects them, there are still those dinasours who think once an animal finds itself in the circus, they become different entities and natural psychology no longer applies.

AGAIN, I AM A LITTLE PUT OFF BY YOUR 'BROAD BRUSH STROKE'. THIS BLOG WAS CREATED AS A PLACE TO POST CENSORED COMMENT'S THAT WERE DEEMED 'UNSEEMLY' ON THE BLOG YOU MENTION. I SUSPECT BECAUSE YOU ARE AWARE OF THE REACTION TOWARDS ANYBODY WHO MIGHT SUGGEST THAT THE CIRCUS ISN'T A PERFECT WORLD, YOU HAVE CHOSEN AS MANY HAVE TO BE 'ANONYMOUS' OR NOT TO SAY ANYTHING AT ALL EXCEPT IN 'SELECTED PRIVACY'. I ALSO SUSPECT YOU REALIZE THE ONE UNIQUENESS THAT MAKES THE CIRCUS INDUSTRY DIFFERENT. FOR THE MOST PART IT IS A 'FAMILY ENTERPRISE' WITH LONG TERM OFTEN A LIFE TIME ASSOCIATIONS, AND NOBODY IS GOING TO 'RAT OUT' FAMILY. DOESN'T MATTER TO ME, IT IS ABOUT THE ANIMAL, AND NOTHING ELSE. GO TO THE INCEPTION OF THAT BLOG AND YOU WILL SEE COMMENT'S THAT WERE ALLOWED. GO TO THE INCEPTION OF THIS BLOG AND YOU WILL SEE COMMENT'S THAT WERE CENSORED AND WERE MOVED HERE FOR FURTHER DISCUSSION. OFTEN THOSE 'DINOSAURS' YOU REFERENCE DON'T KNOW WHY, AND IF IT IS ADDRESSED THEY MAY NOT LIKE WHERE IT POINT'S. OFTEN IN A 'PASSED DOWN' FROM GENERATION TO GENERATION SITUATION THE 'WHY' OF SOMETHING IS OF NO RELEVANCE, WHICH I DON'T FEEL IS THE CORRECT WAY OF ADDRESSING ANYTHING. 'JUST DO IT LIKE I SHOWED YOU, AND DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT' SEEMS TO BE THE ONLY RELEVANCE. AN ANIMAL IS NO BETTER OFF IN THE WILD, THE CIRCUS, THE ZOO OR ANY OTHER CAPTIVE SITUATION. IT IS TOTALLY DEPENDENT ON WHAT KIND OF LIFE IS PROVIDED FOR IT, BY INDIVIDUAL'S DEALING WITH IT.

I suspect those are the same people who grew up in an era where the answer to every problem with their children was to "beat them til they can't sit for a week'. And, I'm not talking about general discipline. Just as that attitude is no longer tolerated with children, neither is it with animals. The images of trussed up elephants on Buckles Blog along with casual mentions of executions, throwing them overboard, etc are never accompanied by any dissaproval, and to the casual reader almost seem to be condoned. Even a statement such as "this is the way things were done before people knew what the hell they were doing" would be enough.
Within 10 years 99% of all the old timers will be gone or retired, and then what? The pictures of Ringlings baby elephant training makes it appear that they give a lot of thought to improving the early training methods, so it will be interesting to see - down the line- how those animals mature.

AGAIN WITH YOUR BROAD BRUSH STROKE. IT IS NOT AN ERA IT IS INDIVIDUALS FROM EVERY ERA. THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WITH DOG'S, HORSE'S ETC. WHO KNOWING NO BETTER, LACKING THE TIME OR THE FUNDS TO HIRE A PROFESSIONAL THINK 'IF A LITTLE DOES A LOT, A LOT SHOULD DO MORE' WHEN IT COMES TO DISCIPLINING THEIR ANIMAL. TRUSSED UP ANIMALS ARE HISTORY. SOME MAY HAVE BEEN NECESSARY, SOME MAY NOT HAVE BEEN. IT'S HOW THE MODERN DAY WORLD LEARNS. 'THROWING OVERBOARD' SEEMS TO INDICATE YOU THINK THE ANIMAL WAS ALIVE AND JUST DUMPED OFF THE BOAT. ANYBODY WANT TO ENLIGHTEN ANONYMOUS AS TO HOW LONG AN ELEPHANT CAN SWIM? IF MANDARIN WAS 86ed IN NEW YORK HARBOR ALIVE, HE WAS IN SCHENECTADY LONG BEFORE THE BOAT DOCKED AND A LOT EARLIER THEN WHEN MIKE NAUGHTON ARRIVED. ;) SURGEONS PERFORMED AMPUTATIONS WITH WITH NOTHING BUT A SHOT OF WHISKEY, A STICK TO BITE ON, AND A BONE SAW. THEY DON'T DO IT THAT WAY ANYMORE AND TODAY'S MEDICAL PROFESSION ISN'T HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THAT ACTION. THAT WHAT THEY KNEW BACK THEN, AND THAT'S HOW IT WAS DONE. IS THAT THE STATEMENT YOU WANTED TO HEAR? I HAVE SAID IT THOUSANDS OF TIMES. NOT AS A DEFENSE, BUT ONLY AS A STATEMENT OF FACT. THE STATEMENT 'SO BE IT' WHICH IS OFTEN USED IS WRONG AND IT INDICATES AN EFFORT TO FORGET AND SWEEP IT UNDER THE RUG. DO YOU WANT TO SEE PICTURES OF AN IRON LUNG? I CAN SHOW YOU A BOAT LOAD, BUT WE ARE NOT ATTEMPTING TO SHUT DOWN THE MEDICAL PROFESSION, ARE WE?

THIS STATEMENT INDICATES A REAL ARROGANCE "no longer tolerated with children, neither is it with animals" AND ALMOST MAKE'S ME WANT TO ASK 'WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU?' BUT I WON'T. NOT THAT I HAVE TO ANSWER TO YOU, BUT I GUARANTEE RINGLING AND A FEW OTHERS HAVE GIVEN A LOT OF THOUGHT TO THE TRAINING AND HUSBANDRY OF THEIR ANIMALS IN EVERY ANIMAL PROFESSION, NOT JUST THE CIRCUS. SOME BECAUSE IT WAS A MATTER OF SURVIVAL, SOME JUST BECAUSE IT WAS THE THING TO DO. WHEN I WAS YOUNG AND LEARNING MY CRAFT MY MENTOR SHOWED ME HOW TO SIT A TIGER UP WITH A COLLAR AND BLOCK AND TACKLE. IT WAS INTERESTING, I LEARNED SOMETHING, BUT IT DIDN'T SEEM RIGHT. SINCE THAT DAY I HAVE TAUGHT OVER 50 TIGERS TO SIT UP AND THEY DIDN'T KNOW WHAT A CHAIN WAS. NO DISRESPECT TO MY MENTOR, WHOM I NAMED MY ELDEST SON AFTER, BUT JUST BECAUSE HE DID IT THAT WAY, DIDN'T MEAN I HAD TO. IF YOU START THINKING YOU ARE SPECIAL BECAUSE OF WHAT YOU CAN TEACH AN ANIMAL TO DO, YOU WILL TAKE IT PERSONAL IF THEY DON'T, AND THAT'S WHEN THE ABUSE STARTS. IT'S THEY THAT ARE SPECIAL, AND ANIMAL BEHAVIOR IS THE MOST FASCINATING SUBJECT IN THE WORLD.

YES, LIKE MOST THINGS IN A MODERN WORLD IT HAS IMPROVED GREATLY AND WILL CONTINUE TO IMPROVE. YOU NEED TO GET A THINNER BRUSH AND PAINT INDIVIDUAL'S, NOT AN INDUSTRY.

FYI, TWO OF THE PICTURES POSTED HERE? THOSE FOLKS HAVE BEEN INDUCTED INTO THE CIRCUS RING OF FAME. I SHOULD THINK PETE ROSE WOULDN'T HAVE ANY MORE PROBLEM GETTING INTO BASEBALLS HALL OF FAME........

9 comments:

Anonymous said...

" A YOUNG CHILD TAKEN OUT OF AN ABUSIVE SITUATION EARLY IN LIFE AND PLACED IN A NURTURING FOSTER HOME WITH RARE EXCEPTIONS WILL MATURE INTO A WELL ADJUSTED ADULT. THE LONGER THE CHILD IS IN THE ABUSIVE SITUATION THE MORE CHANCE IT WILL MATURE WITH PROBLEMS. IT IS TOTALLY DEPENDENT ON HOW LONG THE TRAUMA LASTS IN THEIR LIFE."

I'm glad you were the one to use humans to illustrate an animal question - anyone else would have been crucified.

In the 80's many children were adopted by Americans from Romanian orphanages, which were largely warehouses where the babies got little human contact other than getting fed a couple of times a day and getting diapers changed.
As they became older, raised in loving American homes, almost ALL of them began showing sociopathic signs. One of the traits of sociopaths is that they have an inability to recognize emotions in others and have no natural empathy (this is a simplification of a complex condition, of course). The adoptive children were often dangerous to other children and their parents.
Through brain scans of these kids, it was discovered that whole portions of the brain had not developed. It is now known that the brain develops in response to stimuli, so that childrens who had little or no contact and affection as infants never develop the part of the brain pertaining to those emotions. It is irreversable.
The Romanian orphans have been widely studied, so there are many articles on the web.
This is an extreme example, but similar results are seen with American children adopted from abusive situations - many of who are troubled throughout their lives. Prisons are full of them.
So, again, why is it difficult to imagine the same scenario with animals?
I'm sure the tigers of the old timers were more agressive and untrustworthy than the animals that you are training.
I would bet that if you went in and knocked them around as cubs, they would never trust another human, no matter how good a home they found themselves in later.

Anonymous said...

It's not a matter of who "the fuck" I am, or arrogance. It is a simple fact that corporal punishment is not permitted in schools and parents are routinely brought up on charges for things which would have been considered mild discipline back then. It's not a statement of pros and cons of beating kids - just a fact.
On the subject of beating kids. I was discussing this with a friend of mine who is a retired corrections officer. My point was that there is not enough physical disciple anymore, and which is why the prisons are full. His answer was "Bullshit, alomost ever one of them in prison was raised being smacked around"

Wade G. Burck said...

Anonymous "who the fuck are you,"

Oh, now you are using "corporal punishment" as an example. I looked again at you comment, because I thought I had missed "corporal punishment" the first time. Nope, it wasn't there. Folks, not how the statement/wording is changed if it doesn't work the first time, as we pointed out with "animal rights" changing to "non human animal rights." Are you trying to bake a chocolate cake here, anonymous? What charges are folks brought up on would have been considered "mild discipline" back then? What's it going to be "mild discipline" or "beating?" You have to stop with the broad brush strokes, pal. One "retired corrections officer" does not make the corrections system. Bullshit????? My mouth got washed out with soap when I was a kid, if I said that......

Wade

Anonymous said...

You can find a hundred cases of child protective services becoming involved over a simple spanking by parents.

I attended a Catholic school run by the Marist Brothers. It was a routine practice to beat kids with a cane. This was not a simple ruler on the knuckles - we actually used to compare our butts in the bathroom to see if blood was drawn, and it often was.

Going back further, it was not until the beginning of the 20th century that courts ruled against men for beating their wives.

The term corporal punishment refers to any physical punishment with strap, cane or paddle. Up until the mid 70's it was common in every state, now, apart from Texas, I believe, it is outlawed. It is now classified as assult, regardless whether it is by a parent or spouse.

After 25 years dealing with tens of thousands of prisoners and attending all the various trainings and psycological education that officers are required to attend, yes it is very plausible to form opinions. You are one individual, yet your experience entitles you to make informed opinions. The number of animal behaviourists outside the circus far outnumbers those in the business, so their combined knowledge doesn't amount to nothing. Whether you or I like it or not, in matters involved in the courts, those people's opinions are taken into account and given weight. If it wasn't for the deep pockets of the Felds who are able to mount a high priced defense, do you think there would be any animals left in the circus? Look at England which has no show with the resources to defend themselves against the well funded animal groups.

None of this is neccessarily my opinions of what I disagree with or not. The unarguable point is society has continued to change it's perceptions of what is acceptable or not.

Just as the world has continued to liberalize on every front, the chance that the society will become MORE accepting of animals in entertainment is slim to none. My city just passed a regulation that no animal including dogs can be tied for longer than 8 hours. It's a short hop to extend that to all animals - and there goes the elephants.

Wade G. Burck said...

Anonymous "who the fuck are you,"

" A YOUNG CHILD TAKEN OUT OF AN ABUSIVE SITUATION EARLY IN LIFE AND PLACED IN A NURTURING FOSTER HOME WITH RARE EXCEPTIONS WILL MATURE INTO A WELL ADJUSTED ADULT. THE LONGER THE CHILD IS IN THE ABUSIVE SITUATION THE MORE CHANCE IT WILL MATURE WITH PROBLEMS. IT IS TOTALLY DEPENDENT ON HOW LONG THE TRAUMA LASTS IN THEIR LIFE."

I'm glad you were the one to use humans to illustrate an animal question - anyone else would have been crucified."

I you had done your homework and studied the blog daily you would be a lot smarter today. Three time's I have stated that I would quote "use human terms to describe a situation with an animal, not that they are like humans, but just because it help's nitwit's comprehend better, unquote." It helped you didn't it, Sparky. There you go painting the adoptive world with your broad Romanian brush. I wonder if the brain development could have been a genetic issue? Was centuries old natural selection at work here?

What are you talking about here for your "brilliant insight" into animal behavior, "warehouses where the babies got little human contact other than getting fed a couple of times a day and getting diapers changed or "getting knocked around as babies" when you ask about or cubs? I will answer "warehouses where the babies got little human contact other than getting fed a couple of times a day and getting diapers changed" first. I picked up 4 male tigers approximately 8 months old a short time back who had been raised at a retched little zoo in Mexico. They were raised by their other in a small exhibit cage until they were weaned, at which point they were moved to an off exhibit cage at the back of the zoo behind the "vet clinic" and totally isolated except for being fed once a day in the evening. When the owner of the circus and I went to look at them, they screamed(really hissed, but I thought you would understand "screamed" better, but they really didn't), roared and ran to the back of the cage and piled on top of each other in a small brick "bunker" that was the only safety and salvation they ever knew. The owner of the circus said, "oh, boy!!!! I don't know, what do you think? I said, "I don't know either, but they are gorgeous." I crouched down and started "chuffing"(that's tiger talk, but not really talking, like people talk) and asked the show owner not to stand up, but to crouch beside me.
After about 15 mins. of talking(chuffing so as not to confuse you) one of the boy's slunk out and came up to my hand and talked back. I told the show owner to go find the director and ask what they wanted for the 4 boys. He said, "I don't know if they are any good." I said, "yeah they are. If one will come, the others will come eventually." By the time he got back with the director and the veterinarian all 4 of the boy's were up at the chain link with three talking(not really, chuffing) and the 4th who later became Gladiator(who I discovered was the leader after being around the for a few days), just staring with a slight snarl. When they walked up all fled back to the brick bunker, except the first one who had approached me.(he later became Zeus) He got behind me, so they couldn't "get him"(I discovered he was the low man, number 4, on the totem pole after a few days. Once you learn who is the leader, and who is the low man you can control and work with the "group." relatively easy.)

Wade G. Burck said...

Continued to Anonymous "who the fuck are you,"

They called me when the tigers arrived 3 day's later and as I walked up I was surprised to to see all four laying calmly sleeping. I was worried after a 700 km ride in an open cage that they would be "wired." As I walked closer I thought, "oh my God, they are dead," because they didn't move. They weren't dead, but after 3 day's of trying to load the renegades into the cage the zoo just sedated them, drug them into the cage and told the driver, "vamos, get them off our hands and feed bill." When they awoke the next morning, the were indeed "wired" and screamed(hissed and roared(talked in thunder) at everyone who got within 20 foot of them.

And so began the journey. I placed them in an area of the tent where they could observe the comings and goings but nobody could get near them except I. I was the only one who watered them, fed them, and cleaned their cages, while teaching them English. Within two week's they were watching for me as I approached the tent, and within a month were crying(not really but the sound a young tiger makes when they anticipate something coming sounds like crying. You can hear it on good Nat Geo show's when the mama approaches the babies she has hidden. It's how she locates them. They are animals and don't realize I can see them, and also I am smart and remember where I put them, so it is not necessary to "cry" but they do it because they are animals, hardwired and creatures of habit. A week later they decided every human was cool and now my assistant's feed and water them. I added them a week later with 8 tigers that I have been working with for 4 months and told the folks watching, "in one week the zoo boy's are going to be caught up to the other 8 in development and skills.

Wade G. Burck said...

Continued to Anonymous "who the fuck are you,"

When they asked how that was possible, I explained "because the zoo boys have come to trust me with their life, and will walk through fire for me. I have never lied to them, and always told them the truth. The did exactly as I predicted, and I asked my assistants one day, "how is it possible for 4 animals to learn performing English in 3 days, not only what a "seat" was but which one was theirs, "come here" and "no" yet 8 months later you Mexicans don't under stand the same words when I speak them to you?"

That's a phenomena that I have asked may Psychiatrists, Scientist's, Therapist's and Counselors. The most logical answer I got from a Dr. in Philadelphia was this: They trust you, you have never done anything to hurt them, you don't lie to them, and you don't ask their opinion or what they think of it. You show them that it doesn't hurt and then you demand they do it. They quickly learn and accept with no hard feelings that it is not a democracy. Do it you get the reward, don't do it and you get no reward and I ignore you and go on to someone else. That kills an animal that dig's you. Devastates them. They will fall all over themselves to make it right, to get the reward and to hear you chuff and baby talk to them.

Does that make them safe and harmless. No way. Apollo and Thor, the other two brother's have already tried to ambush me from behind. That's to be expected they are growing up and searching for their place in the hierarchy, neither ever lead and neither were the low man. They were never dominated, but they also don't know if they have the stones to lead. I heard Apollo coming and turned quick and ran at him. He folded and ran to his seat, and he doesn't want any more trouble. Thor actually snuck close enough to hook a claw in my meat pouch before I turned, and as the Brit's would say "fetched him a cheeky wallop" across his shoulder with the butt of my whip. Did he want to "eat me?" No, they don't want to "eat each other" when the get in beefs. He just wanted to take a shot at the leader position. He didn't call me, he folded his hand and said, "you the man, boss"(he doesn't know how to say jefe. He didn't really say that, but his expression did), and ran to get back into the lay down/sit up.

Wade G. Burck said...

Conclusion to Anonymous "who give's a fuck about you,"

I expected it from those two and was waiting for them to make the first move. Gladiator the "former" leader is cool as I knew he would be. Most leader's, once they lose it, don't try to get it back. He lost his position the second week they were with me when his three brothers ignored him and came to me. Zeuz is almost perfect. All I have to do is look at him and he jumps off his seat and comes to me before I can say "com here." I expected that of him also. He was the low man, he started life there and most low men are content to stay there, but they will worry themselves silly that they are going to upset the "new" leader and tend to react before they are verbally told to.

As for your second remark "knocked them around", yes, 90 to 95% of the time they too can be turned around with the proper time and tutelage? Good God man, what do you think a "House Trainer" at a place like Klant or Hawthorn spent half of their time doing. That's right with a smaller brush stroke, fixing mistakes......

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to talk about the most fabulous, interesting thing in the world, animal behavior. I particularly relish talking about it as I get older, because I realize the day will come when I will no longer be able to witness it's magic each and every day. I can't comprehend what I will do when that day come's when I can no longer train animals. Not because someone has said I can't, because that day will never come, but because I will be physically unable to react fast enough. If I am lucky, I will drop stone cold off the back of a fine 3 year old Arabian colt who has just taken his first canter.
If it seemed like I was condescending to you, I am glad because that was my intention. You are welcome back any time, but don't for a moment disrespect the John Herriotts, the Buckles Woodcocks, the Rex Williams, the Axel Gautiers, the Charly Baumanns, the GGWs, the Jim Clubbs, the Josip Marcans, myself or any other "dinosaurs" by "thinking" you know more about an animals mind and body in what you are read, heard, or seen then any of us do after a lifetime of living and breathing them. Instead, go fix the juvenile justice system. My father was a parole officer and yes, that juvenile deal can be a real hootenanny sometimes. A lot grow up with the mistaken idea they know more then an adult and as the world tips left off kilter, entitled to respect. They never learned it had to be earned.

Wade

Wade G. Burck said...

Anonynmous "who gives a fuck who you are,"

I requested that you not disrespect the "dinosaurs" and you disrespected me by disrespecting that request. It appears that you don't respect anything, but your self and your abode in Private Idaho. I wonder if those Marxist priest's didn't fail you by just blooding your ass instead of also whacking you in the mouth.

As for what the government will or won't do about elephants, and what has been done thus far with dog's, me, I am seeing a wiseing up of the American people and an effort to align the tipped left world.

Wade

Mark Twain and Will Rogers wanted to respond to you also:

No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session.

Mark Twain

I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts.

Will Rogers