1960
1963
1961 Sheba and Bamboo II standing, unknown elephant laying down.
1965 Taffy
Wednesday, April 20, 2011
Jungleland--Available for Purchase
Posted by
Wade G. Burck
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A Blog designed for discussion of topics related to, but not limited to, Circus, Zoos, Animal Training, and Animal Welfare/Husbandry. Sometimes opening up the dialog is the best starting point of all. And if for nothing else when people who agree and don't agree, get together and start discussing it, it will open up a lot of peoples minds. Debate and discussion even amongst themselves opens a window where there wasn't one before.
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17 comments:
The Whirling Circus wagons were actually ex-1938 Hagenbeck-Wallace, 1939 Great American and 1945 Arthur Bros. vehicles, painted up for the film "The Big Circus," starring Victor Mature and Rhonda Fleming. They were later donated to Circus World Museum, the movie paint jobs still in place. Fleming later came to Baraboo for the museum opening, boosting attendance with her attractions.
Wade has introduced us to an interesting mystery here. According to the North American Regional Studbook for the Asian Elephant, a female named Taffy was acquired by Goebel around 1965, sold to the Beatty show around 1970 and was disposed of to Circo Italy, owned by Franko Richards, in 1974. Her name was changed to Frieda on Beatty-Cole. She is lost to follow-up.
Another elephant Freida is listed joining the Clyde Brothers Circus in 1970, sold to Hawthorn around 1996 and retired to Carol Buckley's former facility in February 2006.
Bob Cline's records indicate both of these elephants are the same. Differences include an ommission of Goebel's facility, Circo Italy, and identifies Clyde Beatty-Cole Brothers Circus rather than Clyde Brothers. However, the elephant's birth is listed as 1966, concurrent with the studbook information. This is a year after the photo was taken posted by Wade.
Three elephants are listed in the Studbook with Clyde Brothers Circus (Howard Suesz) in their history - Vicky (now with Carden, confirmed Suesz elephant), Debbie and Freida (confirmed Beatty elephants) and a fourth young Asian female named Kitty. Retired to the Omaha, Nebraska, zoo after seven years on the Suesz show, Kitty died shortly after arrival. Many elephants known to belong to the circus owner are either not included in the studbook or do not have this location included in their history.
The only Frieda I have found thus far on the Suesz show began her circus career in the mid-1920s and only worked on Hagen Brothers for three years between 1958-61. She died at the Birnam Brothers winter quarters in 1965.
What is the story with the elephant to Circo Italy? Was the Beatty Freida originally Goebel's?
--
Regarding Bamboo II and Sheba:
Is this the Bamboo owned by Morgan Berry before she was sold to Seattle in 1968? The studbook states she was born in 1966, so this would be unlikely. What is this animal's story?
Is this the Sheba owned by Wallace Brothers in 1961, later a Cristiani elephant before arriving at the Buffalo Zoo in 1984?
Radar,
A Brookfield Zoo staff member mentioned a week or so ago, that their record keeping was shoddy. On it's best day, in the past, a circus's record keeping would have been appreciated if it had been at least shoddy, as I am sure you have found out by now. A treat would have been somebody recording it on a napkin in the cook house. As it's stand's most of it is word of mouth. That said, for what it is worth, I think somebody has mixed up Clyde Beatty Circus with Clyde Bros. Circus. As best I can recall, in the early 70's Rex Williams had three young elephant's with Clyde Bros, Kitty, Vicky, and Judy. Rex had left Clyde Bros by the time I arrived in 1974, and George Barrada and his brother Chino had the ex Rex Williams babies, Vicky, Judy, now Jenny who had replaced Kitty. I had been told that Kitty went to the Oklahoma City Zoo. Larry Carden and Donnie Johnson bought Vicky, Judy, and Jenny as well as Mary, Sue, and Margie when they bought the show from Mr. Sueze, later bought, or stole depending on who you are talking to, LOL by George Carden. I don't believe there was ever a Freida or Debby on Clyde Bros from at least as far back as 2965, but yes, Freida and Debby(a beautiful, big, big sweet female)were bought by Hawthorn from Clyde Beatty Circus, and now reside in Tenn.
Bamboo I, Bamboo II, Bamboo III, Little Bamboo, Bamboo Jr. etc. etc., unless it's name was changed to Sparkle on the Hoot Bros. show for a year, before becoming Big Mable on the Toot Bros. show. That's how you develop the "elephant record book twitch." Your guess is as good as anybody's. LOL I don't know if you recall Mary Ann chastising me a couple of years ago on the blog, for being cold and heartless when I suggested the captive animal world had missed the boat by not assigning just a number to all animals from the time of capture birth, and only having a insignificant "barn name" for handling by keepers and trainers. Trainers could change it's name a dozen times over it's life, but it would still be #56932, with a name of no consequence,regardless of it's spelling or accented pronunciation, as is done now for the most part.
Wade
Radar,
Sorry, this is what happens when old men try to type at night in the dim light. It should say George Barrada and his brother Chino had the ex Rex Williams babies, Vicky, Judy, "AND" now Jenny who had replaced Kitty. I didn't want to give the impression Judy's name was changed to Jenny.
Wade
Wade,
I am glad you mentioned the BZ staff member's picture comment. I originally forwarded your post to her with the hopes that she could help out. I did not realize she had responded with an answer! Susan is a good friend and enjoys visiting the show when we are around Chicago - styles like a proud showgirl indeed!
Thank you for the information regarding the Suesz elephants. I have a list of his elephants I have been building, trying to decipher which group ended up with Carden and which with Johnson (there were two Judy's, enough to make it confusing). I'll send it to you when I have more completed.
Radar,
Did you ever decide if "blind Judy" was a different elephant from George and Chino's Judy. What happened to Larry Rucker's elephants which were on Carden and Johnson for years and came to quarters when Donny and Larry bought Clyde Bros. Where did they go? Were any retained by the show?
Wade
Wade,
I have not heard of "blind Judy." Which one was she? It is my understanding that the Rucker elephants (Sita, Muna and Dinnu) were sold to Vargas while Rex was there and later went to Mexico.
Radar,
About a year ago someone emailed me and wanted to know about an elephant named Judy that was blind that they said "Carden had sold to Hawthorn." I told them I was only aware of one Judy who is the Judy I have mentioned here, and she was still with Carden. I was just wondering if there was another "Judy" attributed to Carden?
Speaking of Mexico, who's zoo's and circus's used to be a readily available dumping ground for American circus elephants, as well as other animals(GGW's leopards among others), I was told the other day that there are only 9 elephants left in Mexico, and none in zoo's. Is that true? Put in perspective, it make's regulation and laws much easier to understand and accept, doesn't it?
Wade
Wade,
If I understand the story correctly (I'm not sure that I do), Donnie Johnson purchased part of the Suesz show and renamed it Clyde Brothers-Johnson. Suesz later sold his remaining part to Larry Carden. Then comes the bought/stole/acquired in which Carden acquired one cat act and all the elephants from the partnership. Donnie perhaps kept the lion act? He would purchase his own elephants from Paul Kelly.
The Judy purchased by Donnie Johnson in 1981 was your "Blind Judy." She was a Dales Bros/Rogers Bros/King Bros elephant before Paul Kelly acquired her in 1957. She was the last of the Johnson elephants and went to Hawthorn in 2000. She never worked there and was retired to Chris Hamblen in 2004. The old girl died in 2007.
Carden's Judy was acquired by Suesz in 1965, trained by Carly Peterson. I believe either Larry or George acquired her in 1981 as well from the Clyde Brothers transaction. She is still with the Missouri-based show.
I think there is a third Judy in this scenario as well (discounting the dozen other elephants by the same name). The St. Louis Zoo owned a Judy for a six year period from 1949-1955. From the zoo she was sold to Paul Kelly and later toured with the Kelly Moris Circus and Hoxie Brothers Circus. She died on Hoxie. Perhaps Jim Alexander can share more regarding this animal.
Bob Cline and Buckles compiled most of this information. I have found a few discrepancies I am trying to iron out. The studbook has several elephants merged and mixed. These records need to be corrected once the story has been clarified.
--
Regarding the elephants in Mexico, I began trying to compile a list of these animals last December. There are most certainly more than nine individuals in the country. At this point I have counted 17 zoo elephants. Mike Swain contributed a lot of help regarding Mexican circus elephants. My last updated list can be found here but is in dire need of correcting and updating.
http://showmeelephants.blogspot.com/2010/12/elephants-in-mexico.html
Radar,
Mikey Swain!!!! Mikey Swain!!!! Are we talking about Casey's friend Mikey Swain? Your kidding me, right? That's who you are using to validate and verify information for you? Haven't you learned anything in two year? Do you want to be a putz towner all your life? Their show punks, they will goof on you at every opportunity, and you revel in it thinking they are including you. Wise up, Pal. Been there done, and I am just offering counsel in what I learned. When you see or talk to Mikey and he get's through gagging, tell him I am just kidding. LOL
Your elephant records were from a year ago, and a lot happens in Mexico in a year. I note you asked about another elephant there and and got no response.
Again, I'll tip my hat to you, as you have done some very good, intelligent research(remember when I told you if you spent less time around Cainin, you would get smarter? You didn't believe me then, did you?)
Here's what I saw and was told, remembering that I was still a shit shoveler like you, just starting my performing career, and they jerk us around.
Larry Carden and Donnie Johnson bought both Clyde Bros. units as well as the winterquarters together as partners. It wasn't until they moved into Edmond that the found out the winterquarters were not included in the deal, but was owned by the Barrada family, who had been gifted by Mr. Suese for there many years of service as well as past monies owed, as well as most of that units animals excluding the elephants. George had just started presenting Jose's great female lion act, as well as purchasing 8 young lions for a future act. The first year the Barrada boy's went out for Carden and Johnson with the lions and elephants, but after one year the show left Edmond as well as the Barrada's. I really don't believe anybody got any lions out of the deal only Lou Regans/my tigers and Lou Regans/my elephant act and the young elephant act from Barrades. I don't really know what happened to Jose's lions, but a year or so later George had a beautiful male act from the above mentioned babies, as well as a castrated male comedy lion from Jose's act named Tuffy. The shafting came a few years later to both Larry and Donnie when someone from inside managing a unit for them grabbed most of the date's from under them. That's when the split between Larry and Donnie occured.
Wade
Rereading this conversation has given me a headache, but I found it while searching for more information about the Bartok elephants (Sita, Muna and Dinnu). It also corresponds with a post today by Buckles (how the web is woven, eh?)
The boss historian tells us the Beatty show purchased four young elephants in 1970 from Jungleland - Topsy/Popsy, Frieda, Jewel and Jackie.
I think this answers a question above. I don't know. I have a headache!
Radar,
I wondered if you saw the post on the "history channel" today. Bobby Cline answered my question above about where Sita, Muna and Dinnu went after Carden and Johnson. Deal with the headache, and stay out of the pubs. In the current confused state it is easy to become dependent on the jug. :)
Wade
Wade,
I took your advice and stayed out of the pubs. I'm not much of a drinker anyway. However, after enjoying a nice baseball game, tickets compliments of our sponsor, I felt refreshed this morning and ready to tackle this again! I consulted Robert L. Parkinson's 'Directory of American Circuses 1793-2000.' Here is what I came up with:
Clyde Brothers Circus
- 1943-1978
- Howard Suesz, proprietor
http://www.elephant.se/location2.php?location_id=1668
Hagen Brothers Circus
- 1949-1961
- Howard Suesz, proprietor
http://www.elephant.se/location2.php?location_id=1635
Carden & Johnson Circus
- 1969-1978
- Larry Carden and Don Johnson, proprietors
http://www.elephant.se/location2.php?location_id=2375
Clyde Brothers-Carden-Johnson Circus
- 1978-1980
- Larry Carden and Don Johnson, proprietors
http://www.elephant.se/location2.php?location_id=2376
Carden International Circus
- 1980-1989
- George Carden, proprietor
http://www.elephant.se/location2.php?location_id=527
George Carden Circus
- 1985-
- George Carden, proprietor
http://www.elephant.se/location2.php?location_id=527
Clyde Brothers Circus
- 1991-1999
- Don Johnson, proprietor
http://www.elephant.se/location2.php?location_id=1220
I have more or less updated Elephant.se with these locations. I hear a lot that the database has so many errors, fallacies, bla bla bla, but it is the closest resource to a compilation that is searchable and on the way to straightening all this garbage out. It is a living being, updated and corrected daily.
Anyways, from what I gathered, the story seems to break apart after 1980. 'Carden Circus International' is listed with George Carden as proprietor from 1980-1989. Shouldn't this be Larry? 'George Carden Circus' is listed 1985-[present]. He now uses the title 'George Carden Circus International.'
Don Johnson does not appear again until 1991 with his 'Clyde Brothers Circus.' It closes in 1999 (the year of his death?).
What do you suggest we do here, Wade? And where the hell is Bob Cline to help us out?? I credit him and the Studbook with more research than is imaginable. He also steered me in the direction of Parkinson's book several years ago. I wish I had remembered it last April when this discussion started.
If one more person names an elephant Judy, I quit.
Judy?? Just Judy?? Come on Radar, it's just getting started. Wait till you get to the good names like Alice, Babe, Trilby, Sue or is it suzy, suzie, susan... This makes training tigers so relaxing!
Bob
Bobby,
Names? Shit, he needs to thank Jesus that they didn't repaint them a dozen times or turn them into calliope's.
Wade
Don Johnson died sometime around 2004 or 2005. One of his 'girls,' Micky Gaffron, lived with me at the time, and went to visit him in Texas just before his death. As far as I remember, he was still running his circus until just before he died. I believe his son inherited what was left: winter quarters, some lions and a whole lot of debt...
Some more information I found about Sheba from the original image posted
http://www.showmeelephants.com/2013/07/thousand-oaks-sheba.html
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