Elephant spends 30 years in solitary - Oct 22, 1971 - Google Books Result
Ziggy (elephant) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The obsidian carving above, in a replica of the elephant exhibit at Brookfield Zoo is a memorial to Ziggy(although it has two complete tusks so it it not too accurate). Supposedly the tusks are carved from pieces of Ziggy's actual ivory. It is at the Lizzadro Museum of Lapidary Art in Chicago and his bones were delivered to the Field Museum in Chicago. They are off exhibit and no photo's allowed of them. I wonder if his impressive ivory went there also, or if it went someplace else.
Question for John Milton Herriott--Was Slim Lewis a "real pro" or was he a "kinda pro"? Did his "pro" status or lack there of change depending on whether he was working at a zoo or at a circus? You raised a good point about elephant safety and I think it would be beneficial if your ideas were discussed further.
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10 comments:
He was an elephant guy. No more no less who got involved with male elephant. Gue4ss you could say he was a professional elephant caretaker. How is that?
Tanglefoot,
How is that??? As an alibi it is brilliant. But as an answer to these statements it is weak as a day old pup:
Anonymous said...
Anybody that would go in a compound with a big african or even asian in a zoo is nuts. no zoo shouls allow it. Elephants are very dangerous animals and unle4ss they are trained and handled by a real professional they should be avoided in close encounter or whatever its called. tanglefoot herriott
January 21, 2011 10:00 AM
Anonymous said...
Yes I trainede Janet and I did a very good professional job with her. Also she had trouped the season before with Rex Williams, so she already had "manners" and a little "baSIC TRAINING. The incidents you referred to at the sucfeeding times were, by your estimation, were in the hands of professionals. You say that. Now it is obvious that those zoo elephants have not had basic discipline training and subsequently pro handling, so they animals in effect are doing them a favor in not behaving. Circus elephants are trained to move about outside of a compound, animal walk, rdes, spec and performing in general, but again as stated, by a qualified professional. Certainhly this not always the case and in fact so-called professionals sometime leave much to be desired.
tanglefoot
January 21, 2011 2:20 PM
Wade G. Burck said...
John,
You didn't answer my question(one of many again), "what happened to Janet?" I don't know who the trainers were when Janet went South, but are you suggesting that they were not "real professionals?" Who decides who is a "real professional" in the circus and who decides who is not a "real professional, John?" Is there an association or board that does the accrediting, or how do we know for sure if someone is a "real professional" or if they are not?
Are we to assume, John Milton that YOU are the association or board that does the accrediting? Are you the ONE who decides who is a "real pro" and who is "not a real pro", and who is a "professional elephant caretaker" and who is an "elephant guy" and who is an "elephant trainer?"
Wade
What the hell are you talking about? He was a bull hand. case closed. By the way he wrote a book. When is yours com9ng out. How do you refer to yourself as a professional in this business. Circus, I mean. Forget all that other crap. Its all bullshit.
Col Herriott,
I live in Australia and have no knowledge of, or interest in, any of the personalities involved in circus animals in the States. I don't care about any of the old feuds over there or who was a pro or who wasn't.
However, in my country just like yours, we have a big problem with people with little knowledge or savvy coming into our business and claiming to be trainers. Some are good, most are bloody awful. We also have some pretty lousy animal people among the established families over here. As well as some good ones, of course.
Like you, I care about what happens to the circus world, more so these days for my kids and grandkids.
So, my problem is, how do we get the media and the government agencies to recognise the capable ones from the duds?
When an elephant causes havoc or a lion hooks a guy, how do we say that bloke was a mug, he wasn't a proper animal bloke? How do we classify him in advance.
And, if he isn't classified or recognised as a proficient animal handler/trainer, do we let him anywhere near our animals?
If we do classify him - who does the classifying?
I know that your family has grappled with this problem this past season with your grandson's case. Have you come up with any answers or any solutions to this issue?
It is going to get worse for us in both countries in the years ahead.
With respect.
Steve Robinson
Tanglefoot,
What the hell am "I" talking about? You are kidding me right? That's the best you can come up with is one of your "case closed" deals LOL. Now all of a sudden we have the title, "bull hand"(you do know Buckles doesn't like the term "bull" to designate elephants, don't you?) Or are you referring to Ziggy being a bull and not a cow? Then wouldn't somebody who works in a zoo, like Knoxville, that had male elephants also be called a bull hand? If the zoo folk and circus folk only have females, are they a cow hand? That's going to cause confusion as they already use "cow hand" for folks who work on a cattle ranch.
The dictionary term professional traditionally means a person who has obtained a degree in a professional field. "Professional" would seem to suggest a zoo person with at least a Bachelor of Science John, if we are to accept elephant handling/training as a "professional field."
A professional is also a person that is paid for what they do. Qualifications have little to do with being a professional as the world's "oldest profession" is strictly a monetary gain career. An amateur maybe more qualified than a professional but they are not paid, thus they are an amateur, which you would suggest is you John as "amateur maybe more qualified than a professional" which we have qualified as someone with at least a Bachelor of Science degree.
Another dictionary criteria for "professional" is: Appropriate treatment of relationships with colleagues. Special respect should be demonstrated to special people and interns. An example must be set to perpetuate the attitude of one's business without doing it harm and high standard of professional ethics, behavior and work activities while carrying out one's profession.
There is a start on a Standard, John. You can't just decide by yourself if someone is, or someone isn't with a Standard on which to judge by. An example: How long must you "serve in the trenches" before you are qualified?" One week, one month, one year, 5 years, 10 years?
Where is the Standard/rule book John that say's how much qualifies you. You can drive a car your whole life John. But if you want a license, which "qualifies" you you are required to take a test. It doesn't matter how long you have driven, or who taught you how to drive.
Now come on John. What makes a circus person a "real pro" and a zoo person like in Knoxville not a "real pro."
Wade
Steve,
Don't say "with respect". Otherwise I will have to censor anonymous comments from folks suggesting you are pathetic, and making a fool out of yourself sucking up to John. LOL
I didn't quite understand this comment: "When an elephant causes havoc or a lion hooks a guy, how do we say that bloke was a mug, he wasn't a proper animal bloke? How do we classify him in advance."
I think you were saying that because someone gets hurt or has problems with an animal, doesn't mean they are not qualified. Is that correct?
Steve, I am not only concerned for my children and grandchildren who want to pursue a career in the animal training field, but also, and as important "any" children or grandchildren who want to pursue the same career. I really don't think it is yours, mine, or John Milton's. It is for ALL children and folks who want to pursue it.
Wade
Wade young fella - listen up!
Do you really think that I could give a damn if some timid little anonymouse suggests that I am pathetic or making a fool of myself? I'm 64 years old, got a wife, an ex-wife, 4 kids and 6 grandkids - do you really think that some spineless jerk hiding behind a pseudonym can put any shit on me that would hurt? I've been building up resistance for years. LOL!!!
Col Herriott has more experience in this biz than you and me put together so yes, I will address him with the greatest respect.
Anyone can get hurt by an animal or have problems with it. Often it's only the degree of experience that will get that person out of strife. My question to Col Herriott was to find out his ideas as to how we define in advance just who has that degree of experience.
However, my comments were directed to Colonel Herriott so I will wait until he gets here.
In the meantime the friendly staff at Garden Haven Geriatric Dompteurs Haven have asked me to tell you to come in from the cold and have your warm milk now. LOL
[Joking Wade!]
Steve,
No comment has ever hurt, because they are far from the truth. I wouldn't post them if they did. Your a friend and have issues with them, so I was just saying......LOL It was just a joke also. You got me topped on children and grandchildren mate, but I have more ex wives. More qualified or less qualified then you given you have had more time to propagate, but also more time to muck up a relationship. LOL Good luck "on ideas as to how we define in advance just who has that degree of experience." Even given great experience in this business when the issue of "paralyzed beaks" was raised we could get a how, a why, a where, a when. Nothing except insight from some zoo folk.
Wade
Wade
Wade and Steve.Hasn't it historically speaking been up to the more senior individuals that have produced abody of work to determine the skills of less experienced trainers,handlers and keepers.To become a doctor and be licensed,there is years of study and then practical work and then further practical in their specialty.So conservatively they may spend over 10 years to become titled.The difference is we don't have the license and aren't likely to ever.Circus and zoo/menagerie are probably as old as medicine and I can't say that we are comparable as to providing a similar training structure.It is just different today as I'm sure your forebears thought of you.Anyway Steve look forward to thrashing this and many more interesting topics in the flesh.Wade,you will have to wait until I can return to the USA before I beat on you a bit.Cheers ay.
Regards
Glenn
Glenn,
If the "senior individuals" are not titled or been accredited how can they possibly accredit others? Staying with the medical analogy, blood letting was sop centuries ago. And yes, a "senior" doctor would pass his skill in blood letting onto younger who had gone to med school and were thus qualified to be taught. It is not a practice accepted anymore. What if the "senior individual/Doctor" swore by the practice, insisted on the practice and refused not to continue teaching it. Would he be qualified to accredit others? Or would he lose his medical license/accreditation?
wade
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