That's a gorilla above, living for years by himself.
I anybody every wanted to tell if a feline is declawed or not, it is easy to tell if they are walking or standing. They walk/stand flat footed, like the tiger above.
Sunday, October 4, 2009
Police in Mexico City police find private zoo at drug cartel's party house
Posted by
Wade G. Burck
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25 comments:
At least the animals all look well fed? Maybe anyone that crossed them ended up as meat?
Gary,
I think "well fed" is a small consideration, in the big picture of "quality of life," for man as well as all living creatures.
Wade
Hi Wade, that's not a gorilla, is a small monkey.
Johnny Lam
Johnny Lam,
LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL. I am laughing so hard, I can't even tell you to Johnny Lam this!!!! I got your Johnny Lam right here!!!! When did you start spelling your name different, Johnny. I think I recognize the "accent" in your writing also. LOL
Here's the inside skinny folks. Years ago Mr. Lam was the only one in Mexico who had a gorilla. He made a small fortune with it as "the only one in the world performing". How he acquired it was, he had trained some chimpanzee's for a zoo in Japan, and they couldn't pay him. He agreed to take a number of chimpanzees, and small monkey's instead of money's owed. When he went to get his chimpanzee's and monkeys at the Mexico City Airport, it was discovered that the Japanese zoo had given him a baby gorilla, in addition to the owed chimpanzees, not knowing the difference between a baby gorilla and a chimp. Mexican customs cleared them through, because they didn't know the difference either, and the rest is history. That's how the only gorilla in Mexico at the time, ended up there.
Wade
Can Mr.Lam give us the date when he got the gorilla, what became of it and when?
Did it ever work in the ring?
Ward Hall sent me a phtograph of it from when he was in Mexico.
RJR,
We can hold our breath and wait for Mr. Lam to respond. The only answer I know is to the question, did it work in the ring, and the answer is yes, for a year or two when it was very young.
Wade
Johnny (Juan) Lam is one of my
favorite animal trainers
I recall his incredible Orang
named Deborah that I met while
visiting with Franz Czeisler
some years ago in Lima
Greetings Johhny from your old
friend Chic Silber
Chic,
Get in the game. It is not Johnny who commented: "that's not a gorilla, is a small monkey" was what he told the authorities at the airport to smuggle the gorilla in.
Wade
It appeared as if it was from
Johhny in your "comments"
The only "explanation" required
to get just about anything into
Mexico (and many other countries)
is cold hard "SOFT"
Chic,
I don't believe any "artist" would admit that their success was shithouse luck and deception. Better to tell it as "multi million dollar negotiations, with the blessings of the President, because you are the best sealing the deal." That was a "knock" by someone else. LOL
Wade
Once again we seem to be on
different wavelengths
Over & Out
Johnny Lam said...
Mr. Burck
I would like to reply to some of your most preposterous, most slanderous and condescending comments about myself. But i don't know if they will be published in your blog, since you have control of it.
So, how about it, Mr Burcke ?????
Johnny Lam.
October 7, 2009 9:19 AM
Johnny,
Call me Wade, please. You may want to post your reply's on the October 4, 2009 thread where we discussed the confiscation of the drug lords private zoo in Mexico City(I really thought that stopped with Pablo Escobar?). Readers would be able to follow them better there. Easier still, I will move the comments to the proper thread.
Regards,
Wade
October 7, 2009 9:38 AM
Mr. Burck, i don't know where you got your information, but they are OUTRIGHT LIES.
Let me begin by saying that i stand by my comment "that's not a gorilla, it's a small monkey" with that i didn't mean to "ruffle your feathers" it was just a comment. I think it is a Tonkean Macaque (Macaca tonkeana) But don't take my word for it i might be wrong.
Now as to the part where you imply that i smuggled the gorilla into Mexico and that the authorities didn't know the difference, let me tell you that at that time, 1974, the trade of animals was not regulated, all you needed was a veterinarian health certificate to import an animal and you could get almost any kind of animal from anywhere in the world, i might still have some of the documents pertaining to the importation of my gorilla into Mexico, in those days you could call Mr. Henry Trefflich in New York and buy, over the phone, almost ANY ANIMAL you can think of, as i did with my first ever chimpanzee's, yes, a phone call and a few week's later he sent me some chimps, as easy as it sounds. Ask around about this.
So, NO -NO - NO -NO, I DID NOT SMUGGLED MY GORILLA INTO MEXICO.
I was working at a traveling zoo in Japan in 1973, it was called SEKAI DOBUTSU HAKU with my chimpanzee's, dogs and a cougar, they fell behind with our paychecks, and eventually left us in Okinawa, at some local cave attraction there, some 20 miles away to the nearest town, i got the Mexican Consulate involved and we made a deal to stay for another 6 months. When we got to the next
place to work, they offered to pay me with some baby elephants, they had 5 baby's at the time, 3-4 feet "punk's" but i wasn't interested in elephants, they had baby gorilla's, and they paid me with one of them. And believe me, the Japanese knew the difference between a chimp and a gorilla.
So, NO - NO - NO - NO, IT WASN'T SHEER LUCK THAT I ENDED UP WITH A GORILLA.
As to the part that you say my gorilla only worked for a year or two, WHEN IT WAS SMALL, i have to tell you that, that is also incorrect, i had my gorilla performing for a good period of ten (10) years, and i only stopped performing with him because i was trying to run my two (2) circus units at once at the time, that's when i sold it to the Zacango Zoo located near Toluca, Estado de Mexico, they promised and did built him a beautiful and spacious display, where he lived for at least another 10 more years or so.
So, NO - NO - NO - NO, my gorilla did not performed only for a year or two, he did for almost ten (10) years. Tell me where i can send you some pictures.
So, you see Mr. Burck you DO NOT HAVE YOUR FACTS CORRECT, and by repeating hearsay, rumors or gossip, YOU ARE LYING.
We have only met face to face three (3) times in our entire lives, i don't know how can you be so assertive about mine. If one was to believe every story or rumor said in our industry i would have some very juicy stories about yourself.
Johnny Lam
Juan M. Lam.
P.S. About my "accent" yes, i'm Mexican and very proud of it.
By the way how's your spanish ????? LOL
Juan,
Thank you. You are now noted. That is different then what you told me, but as you note, it is the industry. This account is much more educational though. It may explain to some folks who have a hard time with regulations and paper work, why there became a necessity for it, and why historically there has been a big market for trained/retired animals from the United States to Mexico. I would be glad to respond to any "juicy" rumors you may have in regards to myself. I suggest there may be others claiming lie then.
Regards,
Wade
If the average lifespan of a gorilla in captivity is 50 to 60 years.....
Is a working circus career of 10 years and a zoo life of 10 or so.....
Which we guess is 20 to 22 about average for a gorilla or is that an exception for a performing gorilla given its quality of life....?
Dian Fossey Gorilla Fund International
Yes, Miss Fossey, by all means, if it means not been eaten by the locals, as bush meat, as they still do to this day, as i'm sure you are very well aware off, or being shot dead by the guerrilla rebels ? Yes, by all means, or end up dead and their hands sold as ashtrays for $5-$10 dollars a piece ? Yes, by all means.
Furthermore if you asked me today, would I do it again ? YES, BY ALL MEANS.
By the way Congratulations on the wonderful work you do on and for the gorillas.
VERY RESPECTFULLY.
Johnny Lam..
Johnny,
FYI. I am going to go out on a limb here, and suggest that it was somebody from the Dian Fossey Foundation you responded to just now. Dian Fossey was murdered in 1985, in her cabin in the Virunga Mountains by poachers who hacked her to death with a machete, about 12 years after the "unregulated" gorilla entered Mexico. I think regulation and law's is what she gave her life for, and I don't think she split hair's with the option of show business or somebody's ashtray. That shot about the hand cut off was uncalled for. It was the hacking death of Digit, a gorilla she was close to, which inspired her to start the Digit Fund, to attract international support for gorilla conservation. I, of course can't speak for her, but I bet if you were able to tell her, "YES, BY ALL MEANS," I would do it all over again, I don't think it would be an answer she would be happy with, or want to hear, regardless of the respect with which it was spoken.
Wade
Wade, mate, I know I'm going to regret buying into this but here goes anyhow!
To the anonymous "Dian Fossey Gorilla Fund International" - I assume that you are not a real person with a real name but a robot programmed to automatically respond to any mention of gorillas on the internet. You may care to report back to your master/mistress that it would be disingenuous to compare a circus gorilla 35 years ago to a zoo gorilla today. Things were different then - in zoos as well as circuses. New knowledge and technology has benefited animals in both facilities.
To Wade - I don't know Mr Lam so my thoughts are derived from his comments on this blog alone.
I believe that his comments about the "gorilla" photo could well be correct. It is either a little Gorilla with a small, almost misshapen head or it is a Tonkean Macaque.
I also accept his assertion that 35 years ago, in 1974, things were very much different. Back then I could have, and should have, bought baby elephants direct from India. Times have changed but if I had done that back then and was asked in 2009 if I would it again my answer also would be a very loud YES!!!
To Mr Lam - Wanna share some of those juicy stories about Wade?
Steve,
The photo was labeled "gorilla" in the story. The large narrow fang was a giveaway. Two folks have corrected that, but no correction to the "declawed" tiger. Is that acceptable but a mislabeled ape unacceptable.
"Things were different then - in zoos as well as circuses. New knowledge and technology has benefited animals in both facilities.
Times have changed but if I had done that back then and was asked in 2009 if I would it again my answer also would be a very loud YES!!!"
What has really changed? Law's or way of thinking? Do people who frown on animal law's, and people who insist we need them, now have a greater understanding of the need for even heavier and more stringent regulation and laws? The world is different all over. Possibly you and Johnny Lam saw and lived in a different world then I did. In the world I saw and lived in there is little I would give a resounding YES, do it again to.
Wade
Mate, the declawed tiger looks awful [and overweight] as also do the black panthers. Maybe it's just the photo angle but they too look like they have much shorter legs than they should have.
I don't know much about Mexico but I do know that some things have never been THAT bad in Australia. We've never tied elephants front and rear in this country, we've always had larger cat cages in this country than you've had in the US etc, etc.
Wanna tell us some of those juicy stories begore Mr Lam gets back? lol
Yes, Mr. Burck, i realize i made i mistake, thank you.
In 1968 I visited Mr. Robert Boudy's place in Center Hill, Florida, there he had seven (7) or eight (8) baby gorilla's at the time, i had just arrived to this country, i came to work for Mr. Ottavio Canestrelli, he had three (3) chimpanzee's. We were looking at the gorilla's, when, without any warning Mr. Boudy opened the gates and released all the gorillas, for me not having had any experience in working with any wild animals before, it was quite an experience, especially when two of those gorillas came running towards me and were trying to pull my legs and make me fall, they really scared the hell out of me.
That was my very first experience with these wonderful and magnificent animals. Several years later Mr. Boudy told me he imported some thirty (30) gorilla's to the U.S.A. As i stated before there were other animal dealers operating at the time.
I believe most of this gorilla's ended up in zoo's and private collections, as far as i know Mr. Jan "Berousek" Berosini got two (2) and his son Bobby Berosini got one (1) from Mr. Boudy, i don't know of any other circuses or trainer's getting any. I have no way of knowing that information.
In 1969 i was working in Las Vegas, Nevada. for Mr. Bobby Berosini, i was there when he got his gorilla from Mr. Boudy, he was selling them at $ 5.000 each.
Bobby Berosini was starting his own act then, he had two (2) small chimps and a big one, a gift from his father,then he added the gorilla i mentioned before a we worked at Circus Circus Casino, i also helped his father Mr. Jan Berosini at the Dunes Hotel & Casino, he had two (2) gorilla's two (2) orangutans and three (3) chimpanzees !!!!!!!!!!!!!
What a wonderful sight that was, all seven (7) animals working together on the stage !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Those were the days, Mr. Burck.
Wonderful days !!!!!
Don't you agree Steve ?????
Mr. Burck, do you remember the first time we met in Mexico City ? Was it 1976 ? I'm not sure of the year, you were working for the Atayde's at the Palacio de los Deportes (Sports Palace) i was working for Mr. Howard Suesz in the Arena Mexico, you were then working some small elephants, must i assume that those elephants were "UNREGULATED" ?
As for Miss Fossey, i'm sorry that she got killed, but if one was to ask her today, would you do it all over again, i'm almost sure her answer would be YES, BY ALL MEANS. She died doing what she really loved and believed in and i can respect that.
And as to the part that Miss. Fossey would not be happy with my response, if i was asked that same question, my response would still be: YES, BY ALL MEANS.
Johnny Lam.
P.S. Mr. Chic Silber thank you very much for your kind words regarding my work, they are greatly appreciated.
Your old friend....... J.L.
Steve Mate,
"We've never tied elephants front and rear in this country."
That had to wrecked havoc to the buildings and coliseums. Are you suggesting that a horse cross tied is worse off?
"we've always had larger cat cages in this country than you've had in the US etc, etc." Everytime it is suggested that the animals need more space, the industry suggests space isn't important, as long as they are fed and watered. I wasn't aware of any studies that proved conclusively that a feline bedded in hay in a larger cage in bad weather, was better off then one inside in the heat or air conditioning? We have already shown that you can either have 4 big cages or 8 small cages in a beast wagon, just as you can with rolling cages.
Wade
Johnny,
I sure wish everyone could use first names. Of course, the elephants were unregulated. They were from a herd of 47 unregulated babies, that no one knows the location or ultimate ending of except 8 I believe, and NO, I WOULD NOT DO THE SAME THING AGAIN. That's just the way it was done, which didn't make it right by any stretch of the imagination.
Old animals, retired animals, bad and rogue animals used to be sold as fast as they could be found to Mexico, and it was a lucrative market. You know as well as I do, that the majority of those animals did not have a good life, before their demise, which is why the market was always open.
I too miss what the "old day's" were. You, I, and many others were a part of that magnificent time. But that is all I miss, Johnny. What it was, not how or what was done. I to love what I did, I just quite believing in it a number of years ago, when a world of information became available.
Wade
Ask Johnny if he'll tell the story of how Bobby Berosini's little gorilla died?
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