Friday, December 19, 2008
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A Blog designed for discussion of topics related to, but not limited to, Circus, Zoos, Animal Training, and Animal Welfare/Husbandry. Sometimes opening up the dialog is the best starting point of all. And if for nothing else when people who agree and don't agree, get together and start discussing it, it will open up a lot of peoples minds. Debate and discussion even amongst themselves opens a window where there wasn't one before.
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26 comments:
who and where and when is this? is it a movie, a park or a circus?
Henry,
Come on. It is obviously a European Circus given the artistic flair, and educational aspects as well as the, we can assume husbandry standards. It is pretty obvious, and I am amazed with your background that you didn't see it. LOL
Wade
Looked like a comedy act to me.
Obviously, I'm missing the educational aspects of it...
Not to change the subject but Netflix has the beginning shows of Mr. Ed. I watched them last night and found them very entertaining and somewhat educational if you focus on Mr. Ed himself.. I'd recommend it to anyone who enjoyed the show and/or who doesn't have much excitement in their life..LOL
Jody,
What did you find that was "somewhat educational." Didn't you know horse's could talk?
Wade
For other Mr. Ed fans
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGZwmelwnBU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm-MYqXhXFg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVm-HwAkVp8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hes_UFHmB4I&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBdzkv35amI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgbtYRw4JX0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ik5VXV9xuLw&feature=related
Of course I knew they could talk but didn't realize they could sing.
Mr Ed info
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mister_Ed
This would have to be Circus Charles Knie would it not?
I was talking to Charles yesterday. He has recently been back to Germany on a quick trip and his embarrasment is very obvious. However, he no longer owns the show and has leased his name to it - there's a lesson there somewhere!
Wade - would this elephant have a crook beak?
Back to the photos. What is this guys name?
Jody,
You knew they could talk, but not sing. That's funny. This fellow actually has two names. Some folks call him Tarzan, and others refer to him as Lord Greystoke.
Wade
you are right - i guess i was not completely awake. it's obviously a circus. the variety of animals was unexpected -- so i should have known it either had to be knie or krone. i like the idea of a tarzan figure with a variety of animals -- i'm surprised it hasn't been done more.
if the show is entertaining, i don't know why mr. knie would be embarassed. it appears to have a bigger variety of animals than any in the united states.
Steve,
Actually it is Orfei Montemagno Circus. The confusion was probably the legs and on the 15th I posted pictures of this wonder with some sorry brumbies. But if you recall the the Charles Knie brumby madame had a pink jock strap, while this piece of work has the more macho leather. Pardon me, I am starting to choke up. I don't think I have ever been as proud of the profession as I am at this moment. sniff
I hated to post the pictures because now Raffaele de Ritis probably won't come back. And I wanted to ask him where that Theatric standards board, who rates the Circus's from Italy placed this jewel in the Circus tiara. But them if he does, and tells us, "They rated my brother Fredo and his Merry Menagerie the Gold Standard," I'm going to be back peddling and patching all at the same time.
Wade
Steve,
I thought the same thing at first about the trunk. But then I looked again, and I think she is just waiting for the opportunity to slug that sad sack in the mouth. Hey Tarzan, why don't you Alley Hup this.
Wade
Henry,
Boy how did I know you were going to say that. With the utmost respect Henry, you saw animals and your eyes lit up, but you didn't look. Like the guy who looks at a lousy cage act with a cute chick, and says, "great act!!! I loved it when she rolled those three titties, I mean tigers over!!! LOL
Believe me on this, Henry. Knie and Krone on their worst day would not have something like this. They would fold up their tent and go back to the yard before they would let this happen. I love animals as much as you do Henry. But I love them in a different way. Steve noted the dead trunk on the elephant. I was waiting for somebody to point out the poor shape it and it's skin was in. In addition it's nails should have been trimmed long ago. It is old, and should have stopped working long ago. Note the Watusi calf,(the red thing with the big horns below) and the zebra below that. Note their "splayed" front legs. That is either due to genetics or environment, or the surface they are standing on. As the other two calves are not splayed and you don't slip in 2 foot of sawdust, we can rule out the flooring. That leaves us with genetic or cheap animals poorly bred, or their environment where they live. It is typical in both situations. There is not a show in the United States that has a proper environment for this Henry. They didn't in the old days either Henry. They just didn't know, and besides there were not to many zoos in the rural areas so there was kinda an "educational" justification. People couldn't jump in their car and drive 50 miles to Brookfield, Miami Metro, Cincinnati, Bronx, etc. etc. so the circus brought it to them.
Thomas if you are listening. This brilliantly illustrates why a lot of some lioness acts go fast. See where the person is at? Behind them, chasing them. Thats why they are running. Is chasing an animal gentle? Things run when they are afraid?
Regards,
Henry.
Hey Joey
This is Alfredo Montemagno at the Circo Miranda Orfei in Italy. It's not an educational act but a kind of musical about the Tarzan story.The Elephant is Jenny. I believe she was originally a Moira Orfei Elephant. Good animal but didn't get along with the others.
Vincent
"The time has come the waldrus said to talk of many things - of ships and seas and sealing wax of cabbages and kings" Lewis Carroll.
The more times I visit this site and marvel at the amount of uncensored information, knowledge, and pure bullshit that appears here, I continue to be fascinated and amazed. At least I'm learning a whole lot from the discussions.
Where do you folks find this stuff? That guy in the loincloth -He is a bad aerialist with no form and from the pictures of the animals not much better with the animals. Of what entertainment or even remotely educational value is some slob chasing ostrachies (sp?) around the ring, humping a hippo, and obviously completely frightened of getting close to the hippo's mouth? If I've got to endure some man in a loincloth, at least let it be somebody like Ben Williams or Mark Karoly who could pull the thing off with some kind of class.
I admit my shortcommings in the world of the technicalities of animal care and training but I've ben fortunate to work with some of the best in the field and even though I just teach acrobatics and aerial work now, still try to learn. This blog is a great resource that I wish I had found a long time ago.
Keep it up please. This is fun, funny, educational, and just plain interesting.
Warren
Hey Wade - will you give up on this "old and should have stopped working long ago" business!!!!!! There's nothing wrong with old - just ask me! LOL
Seriously - yes the elephant has got a bit of age on her but how can you tell that she should not be working without seeing a video of her in action?
Maybe nature boy is the one who shouldn't be working? I don't need a video to cringe at the sight of his "educational" attributes.
About the elephants feet I've got mixed feelings. So I'll start by saying that I'm not an elephant man, have never owned an elephant but have employed a few and have observed a heap of them. I know that nicely manicured toe nails look neat, are easier to paint and are a source of pride to their keepers. But over here, where circus elephants and regrettably few zoo elephants get a chance to get out in a paddock to graze, toe nails with a little bit of length seem to give the elephant a real advantage when it come so kicking up clumps of grass etc. I'm not talking about really overgrown nails [and I've seen some of them over here too] but nails like the animal in your photo. So explain to me please, where have I got it wrong?
Regards.
I always come back.
Warren,
"The more times I visit this site and marvel at the amount of uncensored information, knowledge, and pure bullshit that appears here, I continue to be fascinated and amazed. At least I'm learning a whole lot from the discussions."
I found myself smiling when I read that. Where else can you get such an education and entertainment for free.....
As far as the BS goes...look what I found..
http://www.petbutler.com/pbx/
We can hire them if it starts to get to high..LOL
Steve,
Looking at how the tricks are being done, the lame two foot stand the struggling sit up is fairly telling. There comes a point when it shouldn't be performing in public. If there was an old sway backed broken down horse pulling a city tour carriage, there would be an out cry. It is why the animals in that situation today are for the most part younger, physically fit animals, even the mules in New Orleans. The public does know, fan's may not say anything, but possibly the public does not either, they just quit using the service or quite coming. The Circus has a difficult time addressing that.
The long nails will often time's crack(what happens to finger nails) leading to sever infections. Nails trimmed too short will also crack, leading to the same issues. These in the picture are at the cracking stage if much kicking/digging is initiated. Painting is silly, and is a fad that for most parts thankfully has fallen out of favor. I did it like everyone else back in the mid 70's, and I look at old pictures now, and wonder, "why didn't it look that ridiculous back then.
Wade
Raffaele,
Yes, you are back but not with the explanation I was hoping for. LOL I assume you are in the midst of festival season at the moment. I envy Europe the couple of months of magic.
Wade
Vincent,
It is obviously not educational, but what it is a "kind of" is real hard to define.
Wade
Warren,
Thank you for the comment. I will borrow your quote: "The more times I visit this site and marvel at the amount of uncensored information, knowledge, and pure bullshit that appears here"
If you want uncensored information you need to visit some of the European Circus blogs. They are brutal, but very honest. I have to thing they are winning the war given the success they are still experiencing, or maybe losing given the bans that have been placed in some countries. I have read things that I cringe at. Should it not be addressed? What good is hiding something, hoping it isn't found. What good are we doing to avoid issues. When a comment is left unanswered with no response do we assume it is fact and nobody wants to touch it? If you recall, when you were a part of the industry "pure bullshit" had another name. It was called "jackpots". LOL
It is a changing world, Warren. It has been changing for quite some time. If your world is a 42 foot ring you may have missed some of it. Or justified it, because the conversation only occurred within that area. Folks aren't as bold when they can't be anonymous. In Europe it seems they have realized that, or are coming to the realization. I cherish the art of animal training, and want it respected much more then just "a way of life" for the human participants. Juggling clubs, trapeze rigging, clown white can be a "way of life". Animals, living breathing objects, not inanimate objects have to be more then that, if we are going to appreciate what Animal Training is.
Wade
Simply Hilarious Wade. All of it. The pics and the comments. Humping an ostrich. That's solid gold in PT Barnums book I'll bet. Keep it coming. My own life pales by comparison!
Wade, I hope you took my comment as a compliment to your being courageous enough to maintain this blog and allowing free expression of opinions and ideas. I enjoy reading the various opinions stated about such a diversity of topics. I never claimed to be an animal trainer but I handled, worked with, and cared for quite a number of domestic and exptic species during my career in the circus industry. I always appreciated the time that great trainers spent with me sharing their knowledge and experiences and allowing me the opportunity to have the amazing creatures in my life. Sometimes I get lost in the specifics and jarjon that shows up here and have to go searching the dictionary to understand what is being discussed, especially in the world of dressage, but I do believe I know enough to observe and decide what is quality care and training and what is not.
The posts here only serve to further my education and appreciation of the world of animals and how humans interact with them to the benefit of both or to the detriment of both.
I hope that people realize that when I post, I do try to think through the topic and what I have to say so that, hopefully, it adds to the conversation - either through humor, a through out opinion, or to ask a valid question.
It is refreshing to see some pretty serious issues discussed openly and with the ability to appreciate the art of sarcasm while remaining on topic or close to it.
Thanks for doing this.
Warren
Warren,
No offense at all. We have to just be careful that what we are seeing is not clouded by our love of the circus.
Wade
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