Thursday, December 18, 2008
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A Blog designed for discussion of topics related to, but not limited to, Circus, Zoos, Animal Training, and Animal Welfare/Husbandry. Sometimes opening up the dialog is the best starting point of all. And if for nothing else when people who agree and don't agree, get together and start discussing it, it will open up a lot of peoples minds. Debate and discussion even amongst themselves opens a window where there wasn't one before.
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21 comments:
He presented one of the most amazing tiger acts in Europe in the 90 ties. It was the second tiger act I saw in my whole life I was only 6 years old but I have the whole video on act I remember a little bit and one I saw the video back today it's just an amazing act ! He presented 7 tigers who did a leap frog with 6 , fire hoop, great hind leg walk, roll over, sit up,... all the basic tricks Wade but with a great presence. He retired in 2006 from the tigers there were only 5 tigers left I saw the act back in 2006 the leap frog was just with 2 tigers and many tricks were let out it was became a short not so good act.
Thomas,
I greatly appreciate your enthusiasm, jonge vriend. But you need to describe a 6 tiger leap frog for me, because you sure got my attention. LOL I must have missed it in the Beautour tapes that I have seen.
Fire hoop, roll over, sit up are basic tricks. "Great" hind leg walks, and 6 tiger leap frogs are not basic tricks. LOL
With all due respect to Alfred Beautour who was a good trainer,I feel a bit of remorse today for young fans of the wild animal training genre, because if 7 tigers "tripped your switch", we would have had to sedate you if you had ever witnessed the Baumans, the Gebels, the Holzmeirs etc. with 17 to 20 animals in the cage. Such a shame.
Wade
Wade,
YOU SPEAK NETHERLANDS !!! LOL
It wasn't really a 6 tiger leap frog it were three leap frogs at the same moment it was a beautiful view. The biggest act I ever saw was Susan Lacey with 14 tigers. I have never seen such a big act with 17 or 20 animals. But I think maybe in a few years Martin Lacey Jr. will present us something like that. The most beautiful acts I ever saw were the acts of the lacey bros.. and from Tommy Dieck. This were acts with 11, 8 and 7 animals. The tiger act of beautour originally consisted 12 tigers and was owned by the Casartelli family
Wade,
I saw this act on Medrano in Naples & in the Krone Winter program right after Naples, it was the best cat act I saw while we were there. He worked absolutely effortlessy,& with much class. On Medrano there was also a 7 camel act, six doing liberty & the trainer riding the 7th, after cushing ,(sp?)the camels down around the ring, evert different animal imaginable came in & jumped them. I do know Alfred helped train that act.
But the most impressive thing was Alfred with a tiger on top of an elephant, on a scissor jack pedastal, as they went up, the arena came down into the ring curb, Trudy & I were fortunate enough to be in a box seat front row center & it was an awesome sight.
Thomas,
I assumed that was what you were describing as a 6 tiger leap frog. For your understanding and education, if the animals are standing on something like waltz pedestals or small seats, and there is a fence(remember seeing that?) by each animal it is a relatively easy trick and would be a basic trick. The animals standing free with no fence barrier beside them is more difficult. Like bringing a dog to you with a rope on him, or bringing him to you free without a rope.
Are you sure about 14 tigers, Thomas? Allen Gold, Trudy Strong, and William Voss had 15. That has been the size of all Hawthorn "big" acts, since 1984 and nobody was allowed to use less. I was talking about people who did it consistently for many years. How many tigers performed in this act, "presenting 11 to 12 of the troupe's 17 milky hued felines."
Wade Burck
Billy,
How are you feeling, friend. Boy, I "think" the name Trudy Strong and here you come. I'm wondering? Would that scissor jack pedestal have been as impressive, if you had to load and unload and unload it a half dozen times a week? LOL
Wade
…I feel a bit of remorse today for young fans of the wild animal training genre, because if 7 tigers "tripped your switch", we would have had to sedate you…
Wade with all due respect, it is not how many animals are in an act to make it “great’. After I came back to Cuneo from China with my tiger act, I went back to China for two years and trained an act with 25 tigers. The act was presented by two exceptional Chinese animal trainers, which I personally coached. The tigers did free standing leapfrogs in seven pairs plus six hid leg-walking tigers in a single row.
Yet the act did not go over as well as my small 7 tiger act in England. Why? Class and style! No matter how many animals and how difficult the tricks are, if the trainer / presenter has no class and no style the act will suffer. Alfred Beautour is a trainer with great class and style, the likes of VoitekTrubka and other great European gentlemen animal trainers.
Othmar Vohringer
Othmar,
I was going to point out just that thing to Thomas. I was waiting for other responses. That is very correct that "some" can do more with 7 then "others" can do with 70. With respect, class and style isn't a factor in expertize of training. It is an opinion. Some prefer strippers some prefer ballet. They are all dancing. Because a boob is exposed doesn't mean the are more skilled dancers, and because the boobs are covered doesn't mean the are less skilled.
I would sure like to see a video of that act. All the ones on You tube aren't even close. Were they harder or easier then William Voss's tigers? I'll bet the 6 tigers together hind leg was tough with them coming into heat a couple of times a week. I did note the terrible, hard to work around, miserable up and down pyramid though. We never used two people in America in the cage. Why is it necessary? What is a gentleman trainer? I have never heard of one. I have heard the word gentleman farmer before. I was told it is someone who plays at farming, with a garden and a cow. Different from Farmers who have fields and many cows.
Good to hear from you. Email me at wburck3@aol.com
Wade
There was a fence I'm sure of that therefore it's a basic trick but they weren't standing at waltz pedstals. Susan presented when she came to Europe 14 tigers the year after at Medrano she presented just 12 and her for the last time in Krone she presented just 8 tigers (Jeeva, Calcutta, Lena, Pashoon, Kushka, Segat, Shakti and Sarista). Alfredo Beautour had much class it were beautiful snarling animals. On this short tape you see his tiger act when it performed for the last time in Hungaria because later in Italy Martin Lacey took over the cat act.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivBHzcUNo8s
This was the second cage act I ever saw in my life before I saw Ricky Cannone Malter with his 5 lions. And in the summer of 2000 after I saw Gary Ambrose working with 8 chipperfield tigers this act I saw back in 2005 when there were just 4 animals left and many trick were took out. One of the most amzing tricks I have ever saw is the new hind leg walk of Alexander Lacey's tigers and the head in mouth trick of Alexander.
To othmar I was the young fan that mailed you...
Thomas
I saw Alfred twice in Holland, both times with the Cassartelli tigers. The first time was with Circus Louis Knie when it toured Holland in 2000 and then at Theater Carre in Amsterdam either that winter, or the next. At the time Alfred was billed as "Alfredo Beautour", purely for effect, I believe.
As has been said, a great act.
Thomas,
15 were taken over there, and fluctuated between 14 and 12. When you saw it, how many were there? Now you might know who's act this was from 2000: "presenting 11 to 12 of the troupe's 17 milky hued felines." I trained Jeeva and there was no Luna, you must mean Zina whom Louis Palacio trained, and it is Segal not Segat. Again, don't believe all that you read for advertising or interviews.
Thanks for the link.
I know Alfred had a nice act, and maybe the fences were because the trick was new and still being trained. Were they standing on floor plates, or very short pedestals? An animal trainer depending on their experience may look at tricks like hind legs and head in the mouth differently then a eager fan such as yourself. Just as the riding master from the Spanish Riding school may look at somebody riding a horse differently then you or I.
Wade
John,
Did Beautour ever work at the Mecca, the Best 0 the Best, if not why? and if so what did he win?
Wade
Wade,
The beautour tigers were just standing at the floor and there were fences. Wich were the names of the fifteen tigers who came to Europe with Susan Lacey ? And from the tiger you presented in 1987 on Ringling witch went to Ringling and what happened with the others ? I saw many great acts but if you look back at the history the act are not amazing ! I saw Alfredo Beautour, Gary Ambros, Martin Lacey, Alex Lacey, Susan Lacey, Tommy Dieck, Muderack, Gasser, Redi Christiani and some other more little acts. I saw also a few times Nicolas Bouglione white his panthers and puma's a beautiful act ! I saw Susan Lacey four times one time at Monte Carlo, two times at Medrano and one time at Krone. The first time I saw it was 14 tigers and at Medrano it was the first time twelve and the second time 11 at Krone it were just 8 tigers.
Regards,
Thomas
Thomas,
I don't remember which ones left for Europe, but I remember Sharm who never worked and who came back. You have to give me a break, I am an old man, and I am an animal trainer? I have hundreds of tiger, horse, elephant, pig, falcon, etc. names in my memory to remember. Presenting the same animals or riding the same horse for a long time is different.
I don't understand what you are asking about the tigers on Ringling. They were the ones that went to Knie in 1988.
Wade
Wade,
I'll give you some time. And the tigers on Ringling not all went to Europe. At Knie there were more white tigers and Tony Retired in 1987 and Rajah stayed in America... ?
Thomas
Thomas,
I see what you are asking. Yes to the names you mentioned, plus Baby, and Kahn, maybe Frosty. Don't ask me what happened to them, because I won't tell you. You have to understand there was a period of time at Hawthorn when a number of animals were put in and taken out of acts.
Let's have a test to see how much you have learned. You list some acts that you saw as great. Were they all the same, great or were the different from each other. We some greater then others?
How did Alfred Beautors compare to Martin Laceys? What didn't you like about either of them?
How did Susan Laceys compare to Muderacks? What didn't you like about either of them?
How did Gary Ambrose compare to Redi Christiani? What didn't you like about either of them?
Wade
Wade,
Alfred Beautour act was an beautiful act with basic tricks, Martin Lacey's act is a wild act with some great tricks like jumping on a fence, jumping over trainer,bounces and some basic tricks (piramid, bar, sit up). I like in both numbers that they have control over their animals. With Beautour he needed just one special trick. Susan Lacey act was very beautiful with all the white tigers doing some basic tricks. The Muderack presented a cage act with only some jumps, bar and sit up. A good but not very impressive act. Gary Ambrose presented an act with many contact with the animals what was great the most tricks were also basic tricks, Redi Christiani was a bit the same he presented an act with basic tricks but I would like a hind leg walk in that act that would make it more impressive.If you look back on the acts Martin Lacey act was the only act with not only basic tricks he had some original wild and impressive tricks, all the other acts were just basic tricks with beautiful animals. All the act were good presented. I hope this is a bit what you asked?
Regards,
Thomas
I would like to add,if the animals are wild but under control I really found an act great. An act is great for me when the beautiful animals do some sit ups a piramid and some special tricks like amazing hind leg walks, jump on fence,... . All the acts were other but special some were just beautiful (Muderack, Christiani) and some were wild and amazing.
Thomas
Thomas,
If Redi Christiani had all white tigers doing what you saw would it be as good as Susan Lacey's act. What original tricks does Martin Lacey do.
You like contact and you like wild action? What takes more skill as a trainer?
Wade
Redi Christiani doesn't have white tigers. He had a liger but he took him out of the act this year. Now he preforms with 6 tigers.
I really like wild action and contact with the animals ! Martin Lacey does not really original tricks because the tricks are invented by Chipperfield but Martin is the only one who does something like that.
Thomas.
By original I didn't mean who first did them. I doesn't matter who trained the act. Unless you are using an act to refer to some one as a great trainer instead of presenter. A cage run has been around for a long line. In America Dickie and others could not do it because we use a net cage which is very loose, and not tight or guyed out like the barred cages in Europe. I think Tarzan Zerbini last did it in the mid 70's. You need special considerations to do the trick, and a house act can have those considerations, more so then a private act.
Wade
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