To our left of Alex you will note one of those training forks. I have never seen one or know what their purpose is, or how you use it. Apparently they are used in all European cage acts, and I posted some of those acts in the early day's of the blog, in a effort to learn more about them. Nobody here really had any idea, and a private email from Europe gave his thoughts on it's purpose, given what he had seen. I wasn't comfortable with printing his response, as I had no way of validating it. Maybe a knowledgeable Trainer like Jim Clubb can explain it's use, as it is something I have wondered about for 34 years, and no trainers here seem to know. Maybe Dr. Marcan can offer insight.
Wednesday, December 24, 2008
Alex Lacey at Heilbronn
Posted by
Wade G. Burck
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25 comments:
Mr. Burck Are you refering to the 2 prong fork? If so, well Charley had one which i saw him having to use several times to bring control over the situation either with Prince or with the other males when things got exciting. Also, Jewel New had one made while we were in Ghosttown Park in PA. He had it made after he consulted with Bauman by phone about issue with the lions. Other than that,i have never seen one. CleanRaul
Clean Raul,
That is my point. I was told Charly was a "European style" trainer, and you say he had one, but how do you use it.
Wade
This subject was discussed some time ago on Buckles' Blog.
Having seen Tommy Chipperfield's fork over here I offered some input in to it's use.
My submission was censored.
Steve,
Maybe that is why we have never had a "Gentle American Style." Nobody will share any tips or insight.
Wade
I believe we had this subject here before. It is used to stop a charging animal,by putting the fork to the throat/neck of the animal to keep it at distance.The comment of CleanRaul says about the same.I,ve seen it used in some zoo's allso to restrain a (smaller)cat pinning(is this the good word?) it to the ground ,for say a medical treatment or to catch it.Some use a smaller version to restrain snakes behind the head.But If there are different views on its use ,I allso will gladly like to know.
Wade will you please send me your email . Raul
They do appear to fit nicely around the neck.
The fork is simply used to man-handle a big cat to or from some place in the arena. In a situation where you prefer to NOT use your hands. Especially useful if using a chair brings the animal too near you.
Used primarily in early training back at the turn of the turn of the century. I have seen photos at CWM. Dion
Dion,
"Man handling!!!!!" In 34 years I never ran into any tiger or lion, that could be 200lb against 450 lbs manhandled. I also never had one let me call time out, while I dropped my stick(I have also never seen a chair usd in an arena, and it held nothing back any more then a stick. Just a big prop that you can't put meat on)and picked up a fork, and then resumed!!!! Turn of the century, this photo is 4 days ago!!!
Wade
Ben,
Have you ever seen one used?
Wade
Rob,
We had it before but there was never any conclusion or explaining using one or seeing one used. It was all speculation from old drawing's from the 1890's early 1900's. Have you actually used it or seen it used. I am no way convinced a 200 lb. man can reach down and under a charging 450 lion or tiger and hold it back or stop it. For a small feline, I might accept pinning it down, but even with a leopard or cougar that is going to be real tough. I don't think Clean Raul addressed reaching under it's throat as as Ben and others have suggested as we can see in centuries old lithographs which are an artist interpretation, no way validation. The sharp point in the middle might suggest that, but it also looks easy when a bird flies, but a different deal if you have fallen out of a tree and attempt to fly. One was made special for Susan Lacey by the Krone staff when she worked there. They are standard in the "Gentle European style" act's yet they are a mystery. Why has Dr. Zeeb at least not explained their use. This is the oddest thing in in the world. We have discussed whips, sticks, spurs, elephant hooks, yet can find know body in the world of European wild animal training that can tell us Americans how or what a fork is used for, yet there it is in every European cage.
In Britain I guess we only have Martin Lacey or Jim Clubb to reference. Do either of those gentlemen use one or know of it's purpose?
Wade
Wade
Addendum:
I should clarify when I say never seen used. Jean Michon carried the same type of fork, that he had made when he came to America in 1977. But he didn't carry it all the time. When he did carry it, he didn't carry a meat stick and a whip, just the fork and the whip. He never did anything with it just carried it now and then under his arm as it was very heavy. Susan Lacey had one that always stayed in the arena. The people(from Germany) working the Hawthorn gold act also have one in the cage that is never moved. I hate to stereotype but it seems to be 100% European and British. Is it a "placebo", or an old wives tail from antiquated drawings? Like Jungle Larrys, letting the feline cubs sleep with your shirt so they grow up thinking you are momma?
Wade
Clean Raul,
My email address is wburck3@aol.com It you are peddling claws, I am not interested. I just wanted that on the record. This "secret society" as Rebecca quoted loves to tell stories in the dark behind the tent. I prefer it out front. LOL
You mention "bring control over the situation." I have never been in a situation that a fiberglass stick could not control. And I have been in some exciting one's I can assure you. My boy Tony for one, was very good at providing exciting situations now and again.
Wade
Never seen one used, only heard descriptions. But I think it may be particularly popular in acts where a prop guy is moving furniture and "driving" cats.
Ben,
Nice guess but in Alex's case there is no prop guy, and I have driven felines for many years with a fiberglass shift pole(God would I have loved some rattan) and whip. I can't believe a steel fork that is even hard to lift with one hand and a whip in the other would be of use. Besides Dion and Rob say it is used for stopping and now you suggest starting?????? I'm in the game half my life and I don't know who is right. Pretty amazing isn't it.
Wade
Wade the reason i wanted your email was to discribe what Rob and Ben and Dion stated .they could have not said it any better . The times i saw it used was when Charley had to move cats that were fighting and and other times was to pinned down the cat from the neck long enough to take control . i am sure every trainer has a diffrent reason to use the fork . Charley always had the fork close enough on reach . I am sure you saw Charleys cause he kept his inside the cage at all times .the only time he ever had it in hand was when he used it.he had the whip in one hand and the fork on the other and used the stock of the whip as a stick at that point .let me remind you that i only saw him use it 3 times . 2 on the road and once in Venice and all 3 times it was use was on 3 diffrent kinds of situations . but all 3 times he was the one that went at the cat not the cat going at him . as far as Jewel it was diffrent situation.Also when i was in South Africa i was moving some props and saw a 2 prong fork with a short stump in the middle . that one i never saw it used or who it belong too . maybeit was used for a diffrent purpose or maybe for a diffrent kind of cat thats if it was made for cats . if any one out there knows any thing about that kind i am curios to know why the 3rd piece is useful . Raul
They are not only made of metal.
There are also thick wooden ones.
In and some have them outside the cage aswell.
Rob,
Wooden?? I can't imagine that.
Wade
Clean Raul,
I still can't see a man holding down a full grown tiger or lion with a fork around their neck. I only saw Charley perform, and saw two practices before I went on the show. I went there the first time to replace his act which retired the year I came. So I never really saw him except in shows years prior. It is really odd that someone will use something for one purpose and someone will use it for another purpose.
In regards to South Africa, who was doing the cage act there? Was it an American Trainer or a European trainer.
In regards to Mexico, who could even guess. I saw a show that had stainless steel poles with two points, small points on the end for shifting cats down the chute or in the beast wagons.
There is a smaller fork that was used, again in the old days for picking up and shoving meat into the cage.
I can't believe we can't learn what this apparently important piece of European animal training equipment is.
Wade
hi wade
emile her smith that is lol
wising all ur reders a marry xmas
& a happy new year ....
ref. fork
i'am the proud owner of such a tool
it belongd to my father.
he told me (son allwes keep it near you )
and its over 60 yers old
it saved my life many times ,
mine is made of hard wood ,with a malaka cane as handle ,wich is lite to use ,
and i would never bee without one
Emile.
Merry Christmas to you. This is great somebody who has actually used one. For what purpose is it used. I can see wood being an issue for lightness, so why are all the ones I have seen heavy and out of iron. I saw one that had a 8 foot handle. No way could a mortal carry it.
Wade
If I am not mistaken, Jason Peters had one in the cage with his lions on Ringling a couple of years back. I assumed that it was also used to pin down one of the animals, or at least keep its head away.
Merry Christmas,
Chris
Raul,the one with the stomp in the middle is used for the same reason.
Just a matter of design I think.
Maybe more effective,regarding the stomp in the middle ,if you imagine
being it used.
Chris,
Europe and British seems to be a 100% consensus for it's use. I still don't buy pinning it down or restraining it with the fork. No was is that possible for an enraged animal. I also don't buy going under it's throat and holding it back. A leopard would be the only animal that could be manhandled like that physically. So I suggest it is still a mystery until it is actually explained what it is for. This is just bizarre, I have tried to see on being used for 34 years, and all I have ever heard was the same thing, speculation.
Wade
Emile,
If you could take a knife and carve Emile Smith in the handle of your fork I would sure love to have it to put with my GGW whip, my Baumann whip, my Mario Lemieux hockey stick, my Rex Williams hook, my Louis Knie whip etc. etc. I you ever think you want to get rid of it. LOL
Wade
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