Can anyone tell us about Prof. Dr. Zeeb? He sells what I have been told are "training instructional tapes" In looking through his list, I note that they are for the majority about 18-20 minutes in length. Not much of an instruction I would think. In looking at these clips from you tube, everything appears to be about 90% completed and no real training is shown. They seem to be documentaries of the various trainers in Europe and are all staged or set.
Sunday, November 9, 2008
For Casey--Prof. Dr. Zebb films
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Wade G. Burck
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He is a vet and professor in animal behaviour from Germany.
Why are these for me?
First I will note that I should never here anything about what I wear for training, now that we have seen a fat old man running barefoot in a wife beater shirt,,,lol
Second,, well, never mind. It would be seen as jealous and rude if I pointed out that everyone on the tapes using meat,,,,is using it wrong. Can anyone tell me how slapping the ground with two sticks would get a cat to sit up?
I know I know,,,I must be jealous,,,lol
Casey,
You had asked about this guy, and his tapes. Who ever said it was wrong to use meat? I believe every body uses a reward in the training of animals.
Wade Burck
Oh yeah, this is that guy?
You are rite.
No one on this tape is using it as a reward.
Casey,
What are they using it for if not a reward?
As you noted the one gentleman's dress, I guess the point was taken.
Wade
Bait!
It is only a reward if the animal does something. And as we see with the lioness that turns down the t-bone, if it is used as bait they have to want the bait more then they don't want to do something.
Casey,
I was going to mention, the gentleman you referenced, did you also note that the animals has to be "forced/pushed" into the arena, and that the manes were dirty and matted? A lot goes hand in hand. Of value is these tapes illustrate the transition from "old school" to "new school." Did you recognize the blond haired gent?
In these three clips there was one very valuable "training tip." I call it reward reversal and the process is very hard to understand verbally unless you see it visually, and it is skillfully done here.
Wade
Casey,
Bait is used to get something in close, or to lure it as close as possible. Which is what I believe occurred. Recall that behavior we were discussing the other day. Contrary to popular belief, the whip is only used to "bring it" after you have discovered it's stop. This is establishing their comfort distance away from the seat/comfort of the group as you establish exactly how far they will come. "New school" is different from "old school." You are looking at the wrong guy for the "training tip." Baiting is elementary.
Wade
Klaus Zeeb, now 78, earned his Doctorate in Veterinary Medicine at Munich in 1958. His dissertation was on the behavior of the horse as it interacts with people. In the 1960s he began his association with the Institute for Animal Hygiene in Freiburg, Germany, where he helped developed their Department of Applied Behavior Research. He has served on many German and European committees dealing with guidelines for animal welfare. He has enormous respect for circus animal trainers that is shown by his wonderful films that have been a treat to see on YouTube.
His 20-minute films are promoted as educational, not instructional. He is also the author of "How to Train Animals in the Circus" (“Wie man Tiere im Circus ausbildet”) a 112-page book with 65 illustrations published in 2001 in Stuttgart by Hippokrates, a medical publisher. It describes the behavioral approach in training various circus animals and provides his readers with an introduction to the basics of communication between humans and animals.
Dick Flint
Baltimore
Dick,
I should think "educational" and "instructional" would go hand in hand with these types of video's. They tend to be "promotional." The segment I have been eluding is the brief footage of Rene Strickler. Note also Stricklers calm coaxing tone in the segment. Not the loud voice, hysteria and flaying of the arms. I wonder what "behavioral" approach and psychological impact he would assign to that, or if it was addressed to the welfare committees.
I wonder he he helped with the study of heat/cold on an animals physical conditon/age. Dick, you have seen many, many cat acts. Have you seen any of the animal kept out side for the months of Dec. Jan. and Feb. for anymore then minutes, in unheated containers with a mass of straw for warmth?
Wade Burck
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