This was a recent response I attempted to post on buckles Blog in regards to the numerous posts from Peter Stergis regarding the Larry Allen Dean incident. It was apparently to much because it was not published, yet there are numerous posts regarding my father that are worse than this and were posted. I guess I haven't been in this business long enough to be heard. I appreciate the wonderful example my elders are setting for us younger generation ..Thanks again
Adam Burck
Dear peter
I wish you would have told me you were in Richmond visiting the winter quarters so I could have come out and said hello.......What you weren't at the winter quarters? By the way you described the incident I thought you had witnessed it first hand. I work at Hawthorn and for you to say that the animals and some of the people are inbred I take that as a personal insult. I haven't been in this business for very long but for all the animal attacks and people getting hurt over the years, I have never heard it being attributed to the animals being inbred. It was always the fault of some persons mistake or carelessness. Please in the future get your facts straight before you go off sounding like one of the animal rights people you claim to dislike so much. Not only do you hurt myself and all the other people who work for Hawthorn but you hurt this business you claim to love. That's just my opinion. Now I have to go and clean up the drool out of my retarded tiger cages.
Adam Burck
Proud employee of Hawthorn Corp.
Monday, August 11, 2008
Why are circus people afraid to hear criticism?
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Son,
Thank you. I wasn't aware you had been censored. Your first attempt at the History Channel, and you get axed. I am sorry for that. Chin up, because there will be a lot of that as you get better and progress through the world of Circus. From what I understand, you are more qualified, because you have been in it your whole life, and I have only been in it for 1/2. Wait until you start becoming better and better and start becoming jealous. That's when it gets tough. I would like to advise you to just be mediocre, but I can't do that. That's not how I was taught, and I sure am not going to tell you different. You were there for my journey. Your's has just started, and ain't it a bitch. I will tell you something I have recently learned, play up on the "cute and charming", and ride that horse to the finish line. Then nothing will be expected of you, you will receive awards, and possibly a Circus Diva title one day. Or something similar for a male. Remember all you heard in your life time about the Baumanns, the Gebels, and the Marcans. They were jealous also. DON'T GET JEALOUS. GET CUTE AND CHARMING!!! Grab and take as much as you can of what is left. It doesn't want to be fixed because it doesn't know it is broken. Get an armful and get out. That seems to be the new trend in tradition.
I love you son,
Pops
P.S. I am glad I didn't think more of myself and put you in a boarding school, as was suggested. You were there, no need to "falsify" things to you.
Very well put Adam. I noticed your comment about Richmond. Are you there often? Or when are you there? I saw your show in Wichita, Kansas earlier this year (see post from April 24). I would like to give you my compliments.
To Wade- I haven't disappeared, just only like to post when I have a legitimate compliment or comment to make about a subject. As you pointed out you are aware of my two favorites though - pretty elephants and pretty girls. Aww shoot even the ugly elephants I like to talk about too though. lol.
Thank you both for the time and effort.
Ryan
Adam,
I am sorry your comment didn't make the other blog. Too true maybe. I will also add, many people will try to discredit you and everything associated with you, the longer you have success without tragedy at Hawthorn. The reason?.......few have.
And the ones who had little success, are friends with a bunch of circus folks. Years of explaining failure with the standard "oh these Hawthorn cats are inbred" mixed with "theyre in heat" has caused the myth to be truth, and if you discredit it, you will need discredited as well. There are many "real" obstacles at the "farm" as you already know. Your father has beat the system there for years and years, I am sure you can as well. As for the ones who couldn't (my guess is at least 25) sorry, please quietly move on. And hopefully you, and I, and the rest of our generation, can patch some of the holes the last guys put in this boat before she sinks.
Be safe out there friend,
Casey
Casey,
Thank you. The worst one there ever was, at making excuses for their lack of skill and ineptitude by claiming "inbred" and " in heat", was also the most proficient a claiming "they are my children", and "they are like family to me," when that was convenient when doing an interview.
One day when the book is written, an awful lot will be discredited.
You also be safe friend,
Wade
Ryan,
I have often had people say, "I don't like to say something", or "I don't like to get involved." That makes the one's doing the telling think they are right, and thing's stay the same and never improve, and the tale's can twist in a thousand different directions. Debate, or argument as some call it is healthy for the change and improvement of anything. It is how our great nation was formed in the Senate, Congress, and House of Representatives. Cute and charming manipulate by reaping the rewards.
Wade
Wade,
I really don't understand the logic from most people. It's not just Hawthorn that gets picked on it's everyone that's successful.
I believe that if you work with horses your chances of falling off or getting stepped on is more likely than if you aren't around horses.
Be around dogs or cats and you can get bitten.
Drive or ride in a car and you can get in an accident.
Eat out at a lot of restaurants and you can get food poisoning.
Fly in a plane and you can crash.
Or you can play it safe and spend your life in a bubble. Then what is left for those bubble people to do? Pick on those that are bubble free.......
Regarding "Circus people afraid to hear critisizim"
Sad that anyone can't take critisizim. So much can be learned from what some may say. Of course the wonderful thing about that is we have the choice to choose whether or not we feel they know what they are talking about or not. I would take critisizim anytime from someone I respect. And Rule number #1 is never take it personal.
Casey,
Your comment about excuses people make for there short comings made me remember when i first took over my act. The person who I inherited it from(I wont mention any names but i am sure people know who it is)was telling me about the tigers and there routine. After the usual "this is the best tiger in the world, and be careful of this tiger because she grows so that means she is a bad cat" I was told that i had to keep an eye on this female tiger named Sara because when she comes into heat every 3 days she refuses to work. Now at the time i was still very new working tiger but even i know that female tigers don't come into heat every 3 days,but was told that this is a rare case. Well it took my father and i one week of working this cat to"fix" the anomaly and from then till the day she died never had her refuse to work even when she did come into heat. It just goes to show u that just because you work for years at something doesn't mean you know what you are doing.
Adam
Wade-
I do agree with you and I will try to keep that in mind. To be honest I follow several blogs, some of them animal rights saturated. Yours however is the only one I do feel comfortable enough to comment on. My father and I discussed this tonight, and though I cannot put it as eloquently as he, I have "old school" beliefs and that is how I was raised. Those ideas are not accepted at many tables, even though I make the attempt to see all perspectives of an argument. For example, on one conversation on another site they talk about a St. Louis cow knocking over her calf. Could one who doesn't know their history perceive that due to a lack of discipline in the barn the mother is trying to keep her calf in line? Teach her manners? Raise her? No of course not; it must be the frustration of the horrors of captivity compounded with the terrors of management. Ignorance is not an insult, but rather a lack of knowledge. One simply doesn't know. The insult is when one refuses to learn and continues to spread their biased and unfounded opinions.
I will not say any of this at that other blog because I would be attacked and ridiculed. Hopefully here I can at least get a "Hmmm." lol
Thank you for the outlet you provide. To all those that express their ideas and perspectives, I extend my gratitude as well.
Ryan
Well now Adam. I have never said a cat was bad, then passed it to someone else. Ever. I had no trouble with Sara working, you and your father didn't "fix" anything. Sara worked just fine. Regarding her "heat", don't be silly. I mentioned she and Oscar scrapped on the lay down sometimes; I thought it was something you should be aware of. Your father eliminated Oscar, so that took care of that. I asked that you be kind to Obi. Remember?
My beef is not with you, young man. There are many lessons you can learn from your father, and apparently taking potshots at me has been one of them. I'm sorry for that. I don't know why you felt it was necessary to bring me into this.
"So it just to show that just because you work at something for years doesn't mean you know what you're doing." I see. So you now feel you're in a position to pass judgement on me. Alrighty then. Good luck to you Adam. It seems the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
Patricia White
Jody,
I don't think it is so much what they are doing as, how successful they are doing it? It is the American mentality of the successful ones being "jealous" that has made supermarket tabloids, gossip shows, etc. a multi billion dollar enterprise.
In the world of animals/horses, where all you have to do is buy one to become an expert, the great ones are analyzed closely, and picked apart daily in an effort to find out how they got "lucky" to get the good animals/horses. Often after that close scrutiny it is discovered that they wear mismatched socks or have a wart on their nose or something else relevant, and then it just proves they aren't that good.
At the end of a Champion reining pattern, when the arm chair quarterbacks get warmed up, I tell them, "when you have trained a Junior Champion you have a right to offer insight, but unless you have, shut up, watch what he/she did, and maybe you will learn how."
Wade
Ryan,
Well said. The wonderful thing about this post is that we have "old and new school" commenting together. I have always looked at "old school" as something to be improved on by "new school." As I have stated in the past, I have never gotten angry or offended at Animal Rights, because I never felt it was directed at me. That shoe never fit. It is directed at an industry not at individuals. When media points out that the sports world is a steroid filled cesspool, I just assume it is directed at a dozen individuals, and not the 5000 who wonder what a steroid is.
In regards to the elephants, I would like to ask you a question of which I know nothing about. The violence that we have seen directed at a newborn calf in captivity, has that degree of violence been documented being directed at a wild born calf? Like "why does a lion roar", I think we still have a lot to learn and understand about animals and like a relay team that's where the "old school" hands the baton off the the "new school" to continue.
Wade
Adam,
I told you it would work. Look who showed up, she of "does he have his balls and claws" fame.
Some people are very concerned by anonymous or "cute name" posts, and I told Adam we may be able to find out for them. Post a story and change the name Mona to Sara, making it a circus history story. Eight or nine people of varying degrees of skill worked with the animals that eventually became Adams first act, so we should be able to find a Cinderella to put the glass slipper on, and chances are it will be somebody who "never reads that stuff or cares a hoot what anybody thinks." He wanted to mention a tiger named Obi, who "only loved women" but I said no, that is only two and we need a broader base. Sara will give you that broad base.
Oscar who has been entered, was a "dwarfy" half Sumatran half who knows what, depending on who is describing him, of unknown age, ranging from 18 to 25 again depending on who is doing the telling, donated years ago with the name Tony on his papers. His performance skills consisted of "walking" to the laydown sit up, and going back to his seat. I didn't even attempt to put him in the act for Adam, strictly because he was a homely unfit specimen, and we needed tricks in the act as we had 5 1/2 weeks to get Adam a CDL, make an act, and get him to his first date. As I mentioned prior something "skilled" people are given anywhere from 4 to 6 months to complete without having to get a CDL license. The act was made 7 with the inclusion of 3 white from my act, 2 roll overs, a forward and backward hind leg walk, and a leapfrog and a waltz. I have a video of the "act" working 6 months before it was taken over by Adam, and a video of his opening show as I am sure there will be interest in them someday when history is written.
The apple didn't fall any place. The apple has been around long enough, and had enough success to get "sliced and diced," that it is now looking at it through different eyes besides fan eyes.
Wade Burck
Not sure that I buy "success" as a criterion for taking shots at people in this industry (or any other.) Certainly some people go "negative" when discussing anyone they envy -- however there are some poster children for "success" who probably deserve the slings and arrows, just as there are some less successful folks deserving the same. What might be ironic about this particular thread is that Neither of the Mr Burcks, nor Ms. White, nor even Mr. McCoy Cainan belong to the club that actually deserves skewering.
Ben,
I don't believe anybody has been skewered on this thread. Particularly Casey, Ryan, Jody or anybody else. I believe everybody has stated an opinion based on their facts and knowledge. I believe the thread was started by a censored remark on the History Channel. That's where the skewering tends to take place. What are your thoughts on that?
I will reference you to my remarks to Jody in regards reining horse competitions where a lot of skewering goes on. How qualified/knowledgeable you are will be how you perceive what you just saw win a championship.
Be safe my friend,
Wade
Violence Wade? I don't see what happened as violence. Discipline? I believe so. I do not know the answer to your question. Could we compare it to the happenings in Africa during the scenario where they had to bring in mature males to the park to discipline the younger "rogue" bulls that were killing rhinos? Possibly. Or could we compare it to captive populations in which elephants determine their own social status in the group, especially when transitioning to protected contact. In these scenarios the keeper is no longer the alpha male, so dominance must be reestablished in the group. Please note I say group rather than herd, but that is another discussion.
There is so much we have to learn yet. Like Smokey would say, "It's not easy, but it's pretty simple."
Wade -
I would like to may another comment. I just watched another video of the St. Louis incident and I have this to say - really? This is violence? Or abuse? I have seen elephants fight. In fact we have the piece of Donna's tail from the STL Zoo after it was bitten off by Clara during the heirarchy fight I mentioned previously, hence my father's affectionate nickname for her "Stumpy." The calf was being a little rat and her mother was, and I reitterate, disciplining her. I believe this entire situation has been blown completely out of proportion as more propaganda for the horrors of captivity. But again - this is simply my opinion and does not reflect the ideas of any others, nor am I criticizing any person nor any institution as I recently received an email accusing me of doing so.
Ryan,
I presented the question to you, suggesting that you research violence towards new born, or baby elephants in wild herds. I haven't and I was hoping you would. Where the "new school" has the opportunity to take it to new level, is through the research materials that are available. You should never take somebody's word for something if evidence proves otherwise. I haven't even seen a video of the incident of which you speak. Is it on Youtube? I don't think the "sexually mature African males" is a good analogy. I am a bit more familiar with that, and I am not sure they are convinced that it worked, or even why the aberrant behavior started.
As for abuse/discipline. In the raising of children, there are two extremes, discipline and child abuse. A lot depends on who is doing it and why, but it always has boundaries and limits, before one becomes the other.
Wade
Pete the barboob,
This is Eric Burck one of the inbred humans you referred to in one of your earlier comments. You wrote this in a comment also:
"You're right, I don't know all the details about LAD getting hurt. I only know what 2 different people told me, and both their stories were almost identical. Hmmm... a conspiracy??? The "sources ARE reliable!"
I would like to know who those reliable sources are because as I remember there were only three people in the barn when this "senseless attack" happened. One was Larry and the other 2 were grooms who had worked with my father. I know this, because I was with my father when they ran to get him, to put the tigers out. Ever remember playing a game called the phone game? I do. Its when one person makes up a story and tells one person and that person tells another person and so on and so on. Then the original person has the last person that was told the story to tell him what he heard. 9 times out of 10 the story has been changed and elaborated so unless you know the two grooms personally or Larry told you what happened, your right, you dont know the details or anything of what actually happened
Also just to wet your whistle a bit, I also dont think my dad knows everything but Im his son and that's my job as his son. But im 27 now and have realized he may not know it all, but he sure knows a lot more than me and you combined about animals,the circus and the world. He has seen more and done more than a lot of people. My dad talks a great game and he has the skill, talent, and experience to back it up. A lot of people respect my dad. The few who hate him realize this, and they are jealous of the skill, talent, and experience he and others has. Remember when Joe Nameth held up one finger? Remember when Babe Ruth pointed to where he was going to hit the ball? Some were angry at them, and some were not. Some quit being angry when they saw the result.
"Now on with the show"
To casey cainan
I hope to meet you one day. My father speaks very highly of you (shocking I know, Wade speaking highly of some one. lol) I hope you and my brother(the new school) and other SKILLED trainers are able to bring the circus back to what it used to be. What I knew it as. People about 20 years ago used to go to a show to see Gunther, Wade, Charly, Axel, the flying Vasquez, and so on. I was there, I felt it and saw it. Not the "tigers and elephants and bears,oh my." What I mean is talent and skill, is what brought people to a show. You can see a tiger at the zoo. but to see a skilled individual put an animal threw its paces is something to see ive never seen youre act but like I said my father talks very highly of you and youre skills, and I thank you for helping get the blog started. If I had done it, me and my dad would have killed each other about the background color. lol
I'm done putting my 2 cents in, time to do Chef things.
Eric Burck
P.S Pete stick to the carny stuff you are better at it. (No disrespect to the "side show living legend" Mr. Jim Z)
Isn't it something. Two members of the "new school" shut down by the "History Channel". One because he was censored, and one because by the time he was aware of the "debate" it had been deleted after running for a week.
I have to always remember to quote the term "History Channel" so that future generations don't misunderstand when addressing what happened.
This is the "warm and fuzzy" world of the Circus at it's finest.
It was tough getting a foot in the door, I did not assume it would be as tough once you were in.
I am so proud of my boy's. They don't usually opine as they have seen the venom directed at those that do and it is frightening to young people, unless you can make something up for them, which has never been my forte.
I gave my children the option of the two halves of my life. One has continued, and thinks he can make it work as I do, and one thinks we are both nuts.
Many of my generation have encouraged their children to leave, and seek another livelihood. Yet I have heard from my first day in the circus, "it is not a job, it is a life." Was somebody spinning some "hocum", as the "History Channel" has noted. I hope readers will offer their insight as to why or why not my generation has encouraged departure.
Wade
I could not find any answers regarding the topic, but I did come across these two interesting articles.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/08/magazine/08elephant.html?ei=5088&en=555595cd86596c93&ex=1317960000&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&adxnnlx=1160755343-7g9RgQ84qiiXLk0C9ZAZ2A&pagewanted=print
http://www.psyeta.org/sa/sa12.2/bradshaw.shtml
Eric,
I will probably get to meet you in Sep. the show will be around Chicago for about a month and a half. It is good to know your father says a few good things about me to others (normally he tells me a chimp could do better with the cats,,lol) I agree Wade does understand as much about animal behavior as anyone I know. I will throw in though you may have the MLB and NFL calling about a lawsuit comparing Namath and Yogi to Burck,,lol
Be safe my friend,
Casey
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