Don't Use The Same Broad Brush Stroke For Everybody. It Is Individual's, Not An Industry

Circo Atayde 2004

Clyde Beatty Cole Bros. 1971

King Bros. 1955

Have Trunk Will Travel Gary Johnson 2011

Ringling Bros. Blue Unit 2011

Anonymous said: "Elephant Rampages Blamed On Old Bulls, Bad Role Mo...":

In other words, an elephant is influenced by it's early experiences. So, why can it not be said that animals that came from culls or harsh capture methods and handling before they were imported and have had bad early experiences with humans wouldn't be more likely to be aggressive as they age? Also, look at the animals that have pretty much been with one trainer/act most of their lives versus show owned animals that are sold numerous times and have had every Tom, Dick and Harry have a go at them.
I've read plenty of comments over time on the other blog talking about 'bad' elephants, as though they just became bad all by themselves. The attitude seems to be that handling and method have nothing to do with outcome, and they all end up the same in the end regardless of what you do to them.
Regardless of how much study has been done on the disposition of all animals and how early handling affects them, there are still those dinasours who think once an animal finds itself in the circus, they become different entities and natural psychology no longer applies.
I suspect those are the same people who grew up in an era where the answer to every problem with their children was to "beat them til they can't sit for a week'. And, I'm not talking about general discipline. Just as that attitude is no longer tolerated with children, neither is it with animals. The images of trussed up elephants on Buckles Blog along with casual mentions of executions, throwing them overboard, etc are never accompanied by any dissaproval, and to the casual reader almost seem to be condoned. Even a statement such as "this is the way things were done before people knew what the hell they were doing" would be enough.
Within 10 years 99% of all the old timers will be gone or retired, and then what? The pictures of Ringlings baby elephant training makes it appear that they give a lot of thought to improving the early training methods, so it will be interesting to see - down the line- how those animals mature.


In other words, an elephant is influenced by it's early experiences. So, why can it not be said that animals that came from culls or harsh capture methods and handling before they were imported and have had bad early experiences with humans wouldn't be more likely to be aggressive as they age? Also, look at the animals that have pretty much been with one trainer/act most of their lives versus show owned animals that are sold numerous times and have had every Tom, Dick and Harry have a go at them.

THE 'EARLY EXPERIENCE' YOU REFER TO IS NOT A SHORT TERM SITUATION. IT IS A LONG TERM SITUATION OCCURRING OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME OF YOUNG ELEPHANTS EMULATING THE OLD BULLS. THE HARSH CAPTURE METHODS OF OLD WERE A SHORT PERIOD OF THEIR LIFE AND THERE IS NO INDICATION THAT A QUICK TRAUMATIC SITUATION CAUSES ANY LONG TERM ILL AFFECTS, ANY MORE THEN AN ANIMAL OR HUMAN BABY NEEDING MEDICAL ATTENTION WILL GROW TO BE A SOCIOPATH. YOUNG ANIMAL'S AFTER AS AN EXAMPLE, THE VACCINATION PROCESS WILL RECOGNIZE THE VETERINARIAN FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIFE AND REACT STRONGLY TO HIM/HER BECAUSE THE ONLY TIME THEY SEE THAT INDIVIDUAL, IT ISN'T PLEASANT, BUT REACT NORMALLY TO THE REST OF THE PEOPLE IN THEIR WORLD. A YOUNG CHILD TAKEN OUT OF AN ABUSIVE SITUATION EARLY IN LIFE AND PLACED IN A NURTURING FOSTER HOME WITH RARE EXCEPTIONS WILL MATURE INTO A WELL ADJUSTED ADULT. THE LONGER THE CHILD IS IN THE ABUSIVE SITUATION THE MORE CHANCE IT WILL MATURE WITH PROBLEMS. IT IS TOTALLY DEPENDENT ON HOW LONG THE TRAUMA LASTS IN THEIR LIFE.

CULLS, IF THE ISSUE'S ARE MENTAL INSTEAD OF PHYSICAL IS A DIFFERENT DEAL. I HAVE STUDIED THE 'SHOW OWNED/PRIVATE' ISSUE EXTENSIVELY AND THERE ARE EXCEPTION'S BUT THE PRIVATE OWNED ANIMALS FARE BETTER BECAUSE OF THE CONSISTENCY OF ONE HANDLER/TRAINER THROUGH THEIR LIFE INSTEAD OF A DIFFERENT TOM OR HAIRY DICK EVERY COUPLE OF YEARS. AN ANIMAL THRIVES ON CONSISTENCY AND EVEN IF YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING WRONG, IF IT IS THE SAME WRONG THING THROUGH OUT IT'S LIFE YOU ARE CONSISTENT AND THE ANIMAL WILL BE BETTER FOR IT. 93% OF ALL 'BAD' ELEPHANTS GOT THEIR INITIAL TRAINING FROM 4 INDIVIDUALS AND HAD 6 TO 7 HANDLERS IN THEIR LIFE BY THE TIME THEY WERE 19. A NUMBER OF THOSE HANDLERS DEALT WITH A NUMBER OF THE SAME 'BAD' ELEPHANTS.

THE HORSE'S USED BY 'HORSE WHISPERS' FOR THEIR CLINICS TO ILLUSTRATE THE AMAZING THINGS THAT CAN BE DONE, ARE ANIMALS THAT THEY HAVE RAISED/TRAINED FOR YEARS, USUALLY MOST OF THE ANIMALS LIFE WITH THEMSELVES BEING THE EXCLUSIVE HANDLER/TRAINER. THERE IS A REASON FOR THAT.

I've read plenty of comments over time on the other blog talking about 'bad' elephants, as though they just became bad all by themselves. The attitude seems to be that handling and method have nothing to do with outcome, and they all end up the same in the end regardless of what you do to them.
Regardless of how much study has been done on the disposition of all animals and how early handling affects them, there are still those dinasours who think once an animal finds itself in the circus, they become different entities and natural psychology no longer applies.

AGAIN, I AM A LITTLE PUT OFF BY YOUR 'BROAD BRUSH STROKE'. THIS BLOG WAS CREATED AS A PLACE TO POST CENSORED COMMENT'S THAT WERE DEEMED 'UNSEEMLY' ON THE BLOG YOU MENTION. I SUSPECT BECAUSE YOU ARE AWARE OF THE REACTION TOWARDS ANYBODY WHO MIGHT SUGGEST THAT THE CIRCUS ISN'T A PERFECT WORLD, YOU HAVE CHOSEN AS MANY HAVE TO BE 'ANONYMOUS' OR NOT TO SAY ANYTHING AT ALL EXCEPT IN 'SELECTED PRIVACY'. I ALSO SUSPECT YOU REALIZE THE ONE UNIQUENESS THAT MAKES THE CIRCUS INDUSTRY DIFFERENT. FOR THE MOST PART IT IS A 'FAMILY ENTERPRISE' WITH LONG TERM OFTEN A LIFE TIME ASSOCIATIONS, AND NOBODY IS GOING TO 'RAT OUT' FAMILY. DOESN'T MATTER TO ME, IT IS ABOUT THE ANIMAL, AND NOTHING ELSE. GO TO THE INCEPTION OF THAT BLOG AND YOU WILL SEE COMMENT'S THAT WERE ALLOWED. GO TO THE INCEPTION OF THIS BLOG AND YOU WILL SEE COMMENT'S THAT WERE CENSORED AND WERE MOVED HERE FOR FURTHER DISCUSSION. OFTEN THOSE 'DINOSAURS' YOU REFERENCE DON'T KNOW WHY, AND IF IT IS ADDRESSED THEY MAY NOT LIKE WHERE IT POINT'S. OFTEN IN A 'PASSED DOWN' FROM GENERATION TO GENERATION SITUATION THE 'WHY' OF SOMETHING IS OF NO RELEVANCE, WHICH I DON'T FEEL IS THE CORRECT WAY OF ADDRESSING ANYTHING. 'JUST DO IT LIKE I SHOWED YOU, AND DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT' SEEMS TO BE THE ONLY RELEVANCE. AN ANIMAL IS NO BETTER OFF IN THE WILD, THE CIRCUS, THE ZOO OR ANY OTHER CAPTIVE SITUATION. IT IS TOTALLY DEPENDENT ON WHAT KIND OF LIFE IS PROVIDED FOR IT, BY INDIVIDUAL'S DEALING WITH IT.

I suspect those are the same people who grew up in an era where the answer to every problem with their children was to "beat them til they can't sit for a week'. And, I'm not talking about general discipline. Just as that attitude is no longer tolerated with children, neither is it with animals. The images of trussed up elephants on Buckles Blog along with casual mentions of executions, throwing them overboard, etc are never accompanied by any dissaproval, and to the casual reader almost seem to be condoned. Even a statement such as "this is the way things were done before people knew what the hell they were doing" would be enough.
Within 10 years 99% of all the old timers will be gone or retired, and then what? The pictures of Ringlings baby elephant training makes it appear that they give a lot of thought to improving the early training methods, so it will be interesting to see - down the line- how those animals mature.

AGAIN WITH YOUR BROAD BRUSH STROKE. IT IS NOT AN ERA IT IS INDIVIDUALS FROM EVERY ERA. THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WITH DOG'S, HORSE'S ETC. WHO KNOWING NO BETTER, LACKING THE TIME OR THE FUNDS TO HIRE A PROFESSIONAL THINK 'IF A LITTLE DOES A LOT, A LOT SHOULD DO MORE' WHEN IT COMES TO DISCIPLINING THEIR ANIMAL. TRUSSED UP ANIMALS ARE HISTORY. SOME MAY HAVE BEEN NECESSARY, SOME MAY NOT HAVE BEEN. IT'S HOW THE MODERN DAY WORLD LEARNS. 'THROWING OVERBOARD' SEEMS TO INDICATE YOU THINK THE ANIMAL WAS ALIVE AND JUST DUMPED OFF THE BOAT. ANYBODY WANT TO ENLIGHTEN ANONYMOUS AS TO HOW LONG AN ELEPHANT CAN SWIM? IF MANDARIN WAS 86ed IN NEW YORK HARBOR ALIVE, HE WAS IN SCHENECTADY LONG BEFORE THE BOAT DOCKED AND A LOT EARLIER THEN WHEN MIKE NAUGHTON ARRIVED. ;) SURGEONS PERFORMED AMPUTATIONS WITH WITH NOTHING BUT A SHOT OF WHISKEY, A STICK TO BITE ON, AND A BONE SAW. THEY DON'T DO IT THAT WAY ANYMORE AND TODAY'S MEDICAL PROFESSION ISN'T HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THAT ACTION. THAT WHAT THEY KNEW BACK THEN, AND THAT'S HOW IT WAS DONE. IS THAT THE STATEMENT YOU WANTED TO HEAR? I HAVE SAID IT THOUSANDS OF TIMES. NOT AS A DEFENSE, BUT ONLY AS A STATEMENT OF FACT. THE STATEMENT 'SO BE IT' WHICH IS OFTEN USED IS WRONG AND IT INDICATES AN EFFORT TO FORGET AND SWEEP IT UNDER THE RUG. DO YOU WANT TO SEE PICTURES OF AN IRON LUNG? I CAN SHOW YOU A BOAT LOAD, BUT WE ARE NOT ATTEMPTING TO SHUT DOWN THE MEDICAL PROFESSION, ARE WE?

THIS STATEMENT INDICATES A REAL ARROGANCE "no longer tolerated with children, neither is it with animals" AND ALMOST MAKE'S ME WANT TO ASK 'WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU?' BUT I WON'T. NOT THAT I HAVE TO ANSWER TO YOU, BUT I GUARANTEE RINGLING AND A FEW OTHERS HAVE GIVEN A LOT OF THOUGHT TO THE TRAINING AND HUSBANDRY OF THEIR ANIMALS IN EVERY ANIMAL PROFESSION, NOT JUST THE CIRCUS. SOME BECAUSE IT WAS A MATTER OF SURVIVAL, SOME JUST BECAUSE IT WAS THE THING TO DO. WHEN I WAS YOUNG AND LEARNING MY CRAFT MY MENTOR SHOWED ME HOW TO SIT A TIGER UP WITH A COLLAR AND BLOCK AND TACKLE. IT WAS INTERESTING, I LEARNED SOMETHING, BUT IT DIDN'T SEEM RIGHT. SINCE THAT DAY I HAVE TAUGHT OVER 50 TIGERS TO SIT UP AND THEY DIDN'T KNOW WHAT A CHAIN WAS. NO DISRESPECT TO MY MENTOR, WHOM I NAMED MY ELDEST SON AFTER, BUT JUST BECAUSE HE DID IT THAT WAY, DIDN'T MEAN I HAD TO. IF YOU START THINKING YOU ARE SPECIAL BECAUSE OF WHAT YOU CAN TEACH AN ANIMAL TO DO, YOU WILL TAKE IT PERSONAL IF THEY DON'T, AND THAT'S WHEN THE ABUSE STARTS. IT'S THEY THAT ARE SPECIAL, AND ANIMAL BEHAVIOR IS THE MOST FASCINATING SUBJECT IN THE WORLD.

YES, LIKE MOST THINGS IN A MODERN WORLD IT HAS IMPROVED GREATLY AND WILL CONTINUE TO IMPROVE. YOU NEED TO GET A THINNER BRUSH AND PAINT INDIVIDUAL'S, NOT AN INDUSTRY.

FYI, TWO OF THE PICTURES POSTED HERE? THOSE FOLKS HAVE BEEN INDUCTED INTO THE CIRCUS RING OF FAME. I SHOULD THINK PETE ROSE WOULDN'T HAVE ANY MORE PROBLEM GETTING INTO BASEBALLS HALL OF FAME........