Sunday, February 21, 2010
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A Blog designed for discussion of topics related to, but not limited to, Circus, Zoos, Animal Training, and Animal Welfare/Husbandry. Sometimes opening up the dialog is the best starting point of all. And if for nothing else when people who agree and don't agree, get together and start discussing it, it will open up a lot of peoples minds. Debate and discussion even amongst themselves opens a window where there wasn't one before.
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11 comments:
What carol buckley used to perform with elephants? I thought she doesn't believe in performing elephants?
Got 2 wonder if carol still has her hook on her farm now ?
ESP since she will not open her doors to let anyone in !
I am not saying she is a horriable person - but a hippacrit yes !!
It just drives me crazy listening to her - now !
She is so agaist free contact - yet without all her current elephants being trained in that managment system - she would not be able to run her santuary as she does !
As far as I know - with her so called modified ( no bull hook ) system - if her ele' where not already condistioned for it - she would not be able to handle them the way she does .
Pls correct me if I am wrong - but why the locked doors and sign / keep out ?
If u have nothing to hide - why keep everyone out ?
Tom
Really? Tell that to the guys who run Ringling's farms, to the Zerbinis, to the Swains...to any of the circuses that own elephants and have a home base for them. Do they give tours? Sure we get to see the elephants do their acts, but we don't even get to see most of them offstage, except under really carefully controlled situations. Or giving rides. That what you call open?
By the way, you can certainly go to TES, for free, if you are willing to work for a day. If you are really interested in seeing the place, rather than whining about how you can't see it, why don't you volunteer there?
As for this pathetic little video: has she ever denied that she used to have a circus act? Yet every few months or years you drag this thing out triumphantly, as if it proves anything other than that people can change. Are you exactly the same guy that you were when you were 25? Did you do anything then that you regret? And if so, have you worked yourself as hard as she has, making up for it?
And Tom - if she can handle the elephants only because they were trained in free contact, and that makes it easy for her to manage them without a bull hook - how come every time the suggestion is made that a circus or a zoo or a National Elephant Center should be run without bull hooks, everyone
nearly passes out from the horror?
You're right Tom. she should welcome in anyone who wants to wander around free roaming elephants. Nothing could go wrong there. Maybe it would work so well that Ringlings breeding farm would do the same. In fact, all shows should allow unfettered access to winter quarters. That way people wouldn't have to sneak in hidden cameras. Ever ask yourself why no video exists (taken out in the open) of RBBC training barn?
yES, OBVIOUS HYPOCRISY AT the highest level. Elephants have to be handled and I am sure she has a hook handy. Understand her partner is gone? What happens when she is incapacated. All elephants in captivity or in "sancutaries" must, or have to be handled and training is the most important behavior or what ever it is called.
I don't know Carol Buckley but she seems like a careful lady, so why would you assume that she doesn't have plans for if she becomes incapacitated? And no, her partner is still there. Read the website.
As for the " I'm sure she has a hook handy" - what nonsense. More than half the zoos in the country now use protected contact, and while some of them have hooks too, a lot don't. Don't announce that they "have to be handled" as if that means that they need to be handled with hooks. Plenty of places don't. People and institutions change with the times, or some do, and bull hooks are the old way of doing things.
Actually -- I if I recall correctly - the doors are open at zerbini - in Florida - and if I read the write up correctly - it is on the Williston ringling retirement facility ?
So it does appear that they allow folks on those properties ? Also - is Scott riddle place open ? u can even go there to learn managment and care - hands on ? ( of coarse for a nice chunk of change ? ( nothing wrong with making some $)
I dont think they handle there elephants in PC in tenn? Can this even be possiable ?
I recently read 3 papers that say many places that jumped on the PC only ban wagon are now rethinking that approach saying that the hands of. Approach - as well as working thru bars - may not be the best for elephants .
That in fact - THEY conclude it actually causes harm - when it is not clearly needed for the succesful managment of elephants - that strive in a free contact system ?
I had the opportunity to speak to many in the buiness of zoos - that feel jumping on the band wagon of PC - is being revisited - and the facts are the facts - that FC elephants live longer - healthier lives. And one of the main
reasons behind changing over was the lack of expieranced keepers - that could safetly handle In free contact. ?
I guess it us much easier to hire someone cheap to work thru bars ?
I just find it a interesting subject - ESP how many get all up in arms about it -
Why in hell can't anontmous sign his or her name and I would like to know nhow you could have an elephant do all these behaviors without a hook unless it had not already been trained, or educayed. I have trained, worked and handled elephants for sixty years am a student on the subject. I am certain that there are some "hands off" elephant in that group and it would be necessary to handle them only with a bull hook. In fact by this time I am sure a number are hands off in any case. They get smart when they know they can get away witrh no discipline. Please sign your name and creedentials.
But John, if a hook is only "an extension of the arm" or whatever the circuses and the EMA would like us to believe, what's the problem with using the arm without an extension? Oh, wait, you said something about discipline...hmmm, does that mean that the hook is used to punish the elephants for wrongdoing? Do tell.
By the way, "hands off" doesn't mean with a bull hook.
But all of this can be so easily answered - all you folks complaining about how you can't go to the elephant sanctuary - why don't you just volunteer there? If you are willing to give a day of work, you can see the place from the inside. And I guarantee you will see as big a percent of its true workings as you will if you pay money and take a management course at Riddle's. Which is to say, you'll see what they choose to show you.
She can't sign her or his name because IT is an AR person in hiding!
Anonymous,
Or they are in the circus industry, and are terrified of getting "tarred and feathered" by friendly, warm, and fuzzy folks in the circus industry.
Wade
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