Thursday morning the U. S. Department of Agriculture took an African elephant from a home in Miami County, Indiana . The USDA took tigers and lions from the same residence a few days ago. The USDA claims the animals' living conditions weren't following the law, but the animals' owner, Julius von Uhl, 72, said he wasn't given proper notice of the violations.
von Uhl grew up with the circus in Hungary. When he was 12, von Uhl started learning how to work with circus animals, and by age 15, he was a trainer.
In 1956, von Uhl moved to the United States. After several years of working as a horse trainer and serving in the Vietnam War, he moved to Indiana.
"I bought my own animals and had my own circus. We went from town to town like a gypsy," von Uhl said.
von Uhl owned an African elephant named Twiggy, six tigers and four lions. Melisa Culbertson's been to one of von Uhl's circus performances.
"There were mostly Amish children there. They loved it. They smiled and clapped," she said.
After years of taking his circus on the road, von Uhl decided to retire this year. He made arrangements to sell Twiggy to the Pittsburgh Zoo for breeding. Now, von Uhl said the government robbed him of the money he would have been paid for selling the elephant.
"Not anybody should come to my door and say I have half an hour to do the impossible and take my animals worth money," von Uhl said.
At random over the years, inspectors from the U.S. Department of Agriculture Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service would check on the animals at von Uhl's Miami County home.
"For 15 years they've been inspecting this barn and they never said I have to change this. Then all of a sudden, one elephant expert, one opinion, without a hearing or my vet backing me up [they take my elephant]," von Uhl said.
von Uhl said his veterinarian, Dr. H. F. Terrill DVM of the Manchester Veterinary Clinic, just examined Twiggy on February 9, two days before the USDA took her. Terrill's report said of Twiggy, "she's eating, normal stool and urination, appears healthy and happy." Dr. Terrill told NewsChannel 15 he did not think Twiggy shows signs of being in a space too small for her size.
A letter to von Uhl that same day from the USDA stated he was in violation of space requirements stated in the Animal Welfare Act and that Twiggy was suffering as a result.
An inspection report from January 2009 showed von Uhl was told the cages for his big cats weren't big enough and needed to be fixed. von Uhl admits to this violation and said he already bought material to build larger cages. Another inspection report from November 2009 showed those cages and conditions for the cats had not changed.
None of the reports NewsChannel 15 was able to obtain on Thursday showed any notice of a violation with the barn for Twiggy. Just a letter from February 9 stated Twiggy would be confiscated on February 11 if her conditions were not changed to "alleviate the animal's suffering."
However, USDA spokesman Nolan Lemon told NewsChannel 15 that von Uhl was "given ample time to improve his facility and health of his animals. Those weren't adhered to as of our last inspection." Lemon called the conditions deplorable.
"The USDA does not confiscate animals haphazardly. When it gets to the point of confiscation, the licensee had to have had repeat violations and not adhered to the rules and the required changes or improvements," Lemon said.
Culbertson said she called the USDA, asking them to not take Twiggy because she was going to be moved to the Pittsburgh Zoo in a few weeks. She was told no.
"If the elephant wasn't in any immediate health danger, it would be better to take her in a manner in which she is used to traveling and with the person with whom she is used to traveling," Culbertson said.
von Uhl trains Culbertson's horses, and she said she's never seen him harm an animal in any way.
"I feel sorry and sad for him. At one time he was a revered lion tamer who everyone loved and children applauded. Now he's being scorned and called an abuser," she said.
von Uhl said the zoo was going to pay him $150,000 for Twiggy. The zoo couldn't be reached for comment because it's closed due to the recent snow storm.
Saturday, February 13, 2010
another black eye for the circus industry
Posted by
adam
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34 comments:
What changed in the elephant barn during those 15 years?
Steve,
This quote from Ms. Culbertson, "At one time he was a revered lion tamer who everyone loved," is probably what changed. Amazing paper from a parrot repeating what it was told.
Wade
Wade - wrong answer.
We can all see that Ms Culbertson is dribbling.
The interest for me is, if the barn was OK to winter an elephant in for 15 years what has now changed?
And where are the cats? Compared to an elephant are they not high profile enough to warrant the same amount of media attention?
Are you people concerned with Circus PR or Right to ownership?
"another black eye for the circus industry"
Are you really concerned about any of it?
I think you better broaden your scope of the issue.
Von Uhl said the elephant was sold to the zoo for $150,000. Maybe the zoo realized they could get the elephant for free.
I don't know where the elephant was taken.
Maybe someone told the elephant sanctuary in TN who wanted the elephant.
What's the back story?
Where did they take the elephant?
And what about the other animals confiscted you reported?
Where did they go?
http://pjboosinger.viviti.com/
And for the inside story
http://topcatsroar.wordpress.com
I think you know who I am!
The elephant was taken to the Toledo Zoo
Here's where the 'cream of the crop' Hoffmann cats went (6)
no body seemed too interested in the old ones and the one of mixed bred, just Hoffmann
Here's more links on interest as well.
http://pjboosinger.viviti.com/entries/general/big-dad%E2%80%99s-big-cats-aka-wisconsin-big-cat-rescue
http://pjboosinger.viviti.com/entries/general/government-kicking-the-widow-hoffman
http://pjboosinger.viviti.com/entries/general/calling-caroline-wedding
http://pjboosinger.viviti.com/entries/general/weeping-for-the-big-cats-and-a-bit-of-
Anonymous Mutt # 1,
Yes, I am sure we are all concerned. The heading to this thread was the headline from the news article, not my words, although it is appropriate. PR is an individual function, and if more "individuals" had considered it, we would not currently be in this fix. Back yard bitch fests, and covering for the bandits did not fix the issue, and will only make it worse. Now take your own advise, and look at all the issues, and quite playing pity party.
Wade
Boy, that comment was way out of line...but you never owned the cats you worked did you?
What did you care?
Yea-yea, you worked and slaved like the rest of us, blah- blah-blah!
Bet Mr. Cuneo is still upset about the confiscation of his elephants.
What about Lance Ramos?
Now Von Uhl.
And Willy's two elephants!
And they ARE planning to take Boo!
Whether you like any of us or not is not the point and nor do we care, this is supposed to be a discussion group for open and honest discussion as you point out as the purpose of this blog.
"A Blog designed for discussion of topics related to, but not limited to, Circus, Zoos, Animal Training, and Animal Welfare/Husbandry. Sometimes opening up the dialog is the best starting point of all. And if for nothing else when people who agree and don't agree, get together and start discussing it, it will open up a lot of peoples minds. Debate and discussion even amongst themselves opens a window where there wasn't one before."
Maybe you should change those words to "If you don't agree with my view point, then don't read"
"Back yard bitch fests, and covering for the bandits did not fix the issue, and will only make it worse."
Worse?
It needs to be pointed out! You're right it won't fix it but look at what happened. What took place was TOTALLY uncalled for and you know that as well as I.
Hoffmann and Lulling spent a week in jail! Hoffmann caved, gave up her to right to ownership. All charges dropped and the Humane Society and the DA wear a feather in their caps. They are then released from jail.
Is that justice?
There are bears living in Jefferson and registered! But how long will it be before they do the same to him?
Look what they did to Bucky! Dug up the elephant and now they dug up a lion! These people are insane!
There is soon to be a very serious loss of ownership of private animals even for those who manage to not make any mistakes and that's a fact!
Here's where the cats went and if you don't find this maddening then maybe you are more of a pompus ass I have already thought you to be!
Pity party?
Screw you!
Get off that high horse of yours and look what is going on, no pun intended!
http://pjboosinger.viviti.com/entries/general/jeffrey-g-kozlowski-bank-robber#comments
So Wade, is that where you think the animals of the circus belong for retirement? All because of one stupid mistake? Trusting the words of the past District Attorney.
But wait, the guy that took the cats is in trouble in his county and he IS a criminal!
Translation, where will those cats be moved to next? And frankly, if you don't care this blog is a bigger farce than anyone thought it to be.
The two white tigers going to be moved again, to a zoo. Caging under construction and all the females are probably already mated from more 'accidental breeding' seeing as how he paired them up when he returned to 'the sanctuary'.
Check it all out black and white and if you go to the utube you will really be disgusted!
Where's the sheltered tops to these cages for shade?
Are there even tops on these cages?
Cartainly don't appear to be high enough to not have a top and what abot the bent portion, I don't see one, do you?
Look at the ground!
Where the hell is the USDA?
Did you even view any of those links?
Pity party!?!
Pity you!
Wake up and see the light!
I'm not bothering to fight with you Wade, just your attitude is not appreciated! Especially when considering the purpose of this blog.
(You gonna delete this or print it? We'll see.)
Anonymous Barbara,
Of course I will post your comment, even though we don't advocate "anonymous". I even let you use "B" in a number of comments earlier. I am posting it because it show's true arrogance, even in a crisis, and to quote you, "Maybe you should change those words to "If you don't agree with my view point, then don't read". I let you post using "B" so you could feel a part of something worthy. I felt sorry for you, and understood why you didn't want the world knowing who was making those insane comments, and now you are upset because I don't agree with you. When the hell did I????? Of course, I didn't own my own animals. I am an Animal Trainer, and "not owning" gave me the opportunity to train many, many animals, and different species. If I had had my own, they would have been trained, and I would have been presenting them. I love training, not performing, get it. You will also find quotes from the past, where I was asked the same invalid question, "Do you own the animals?" The answer was always the same, the one above, with the addition of "I never want to be in a position where I can't care for them properly, or have to make a choice between my children eating or the animals." A decision I made long, long ago which I have never regretted.
I also posted this to illustrate to Allen what I commented back to him. It is always somebody else's fault, and there is always a finger pointed elsewhere in this industry(which I do love).
Of course none of the folks you listed are happy with the confiscation's that occurred. Why would they be? But they were a long time coming, weren't they? Nobody is happy with a speeding ticket, are they? But if you break the law, or don't abide by the rules of the road, you get a ticket. Enough of them, and you lose your driving privileges.
We are here to print the fact's and that is what we have done.
Wade
I, for one, have mixed emotions about this (less so about Uhl). The people facing the brunt of the confiscations are 'old time' folks who have always done things that way, and the world changed faster than they could adjust. Still, try telling that to a tiger living 24 hours a day in ammonia fumes. However good your final intentions are, your animals did not have an acceptable standard of living. And, I don't care what your excuses about the cold, etc, a cage can not be properly cleaned without being scrubbed. Throwing a handful of sawdust into urine is not cleaning.
No matter how much you love(d) your animals, you did not have the recources to care for them. I saw the pictures of the cages you were building. How long, do you think, before a small cage, set up on dirt will be fouled?
In other statements you've made about "getting into the schools" you show a certain naivete. Do you honestly believe that you could generate enough income from school shows to support the number of animals you accumulated? There are established 'sanctuaries' or whatever you want to call them who are struggling with reduced donations. This is not the time to begin a new venture in that direction. There is more to establishing a 'sactuary' that setting up some pens on borrowed land.
When working cage acts have cut the number of animals due to costs and the ability to increase cage sizes, why did you think it financialy or ethically feasible to operate the way you were.
I don't doubt your motives, but I question your sense of reality. There comes a time, due to age and market feasibility when you have to stand back and say it's time to call it quits.
I too, question the destination for the animals you owned, and I pity the animals and their uncertain future, but Barbara, this is your doing. There was a time when you had the luxury of time to find more acceptable homes for your animals - ones that you approved of. But that time is gone, and now the animals are at the mercy of God knows what. Frankly, euthenasia may be the most humane option at this point.
But, having said all that, I do feel for what you are going through. I have found myself in the position of re-homing animals I cared more about than anything in the world when it was no longer feasible to provide the best for them.
I agree with Wade, and he made a well considered choice to follow his career without owning the animals. There is no virtue in sleepless nights, wondering how you'll pay a feed bill.
So, God bless you Barbara, you will come through this, though not without scars. Naivete is not an evil thing and I don't believe for a second that your intentions were either.
Dear Anonymous
I have been reading your blog posts for a couple weeks now and I can hold my tongue no longer.
First off what qualifications if any do you have to comment on animals welfare or care?
I am going to respond to each of your comments.
First off I have worked for someone else who owned the animals I worked, and I also now own my own animals.
First off Let me say that I have known Mr Cuneo My whole life. My wife and I owe everything we currently have to him, and his company.without him I would not be in the position i am in today. With that being said he broke the law. He was given many,many chances to fix the problems with the elephants and it was only after years of problems that they were taken away.
Mr. ramos has also had many many run ins with the USDA and also it was after numerous warnings that his elephant was taken. He has had 2 USDA licenses under his name and his fathers that were revoked.
Will davenport has also had a long history of problems with elephant care and USDAs write up, and he was given years to fix the problems before his animals were taken.
How many chances does a person deserve before action is taken? 1, 10, 100? How many years must they be given before action is taken? What is your answer to these questions?
Now on to Mrs Hoffman.
First off her comment" I am a circus superstar and this is how we look when we are not working makes me furious. To be lumped in with her is an outrage. I spend many hours and loads of money making my winter quarters look nice, and properly caring for my animals. To think that people now think that I live like that is infuriating.
Second her statement that she had no idea that she need permits or she had to contact the county is also ridicules. I spend hours upon hours talking with state and local officials about transporting, housing, and working my animals in every different state and county that i am going to be in.. I also would never think about moving any animals into a state or county until I found out all the laws about it. to not do that is ignorant and lazy.
Also she did not have a USDA license.Why was it taken away? That right there is a reason to have her animals taken away. I spend tens of thousands of dollars a year on permits, vet bills,insurance, and the many other things it takes to own exotic animals. How did she plan on paying for all this to set up a educational park if she didn't even have enough money to properly care for the animals she had?
Now on to Mr uhl.
If you go online to the USDA web site you can view any and all inspection reports for anyone who has a USDA license. I did that, apparently you did not otherwise you would see that he has been sighted for the condition of the elephant barn since march 2007. Also he has been sited for not having proper tiger and lion enclosures since may of 2007. he was sited a total of 5 times since 07 concerning the elephant barn, and the elephant himself, and over 11 times for the tiger cages. That to me is outrageous. Once again how many chances do we have to give people before action is taken.
The first thing my wife and I did before we took possession of our animals is to make sure that we had adequate means to care for the animals in the event that we never work again. If you can not provide for your animals after you are finished working you don't deserve to have animals. The laws in this country are in place for a reason. Why is it OK for some people to not follow the laws when the rest of us have to. I would love to put the 30,000 plus dollars I spend every year on animal permits, vet bills, cages, and everything else that I am required to have to own animals.
I have been in the circus my whole life and I love it, but people like the ones you mentioned in your post make me worried that it wont be around for very much longer.
Every time we take a step forward in fighting the animal rights extremists, crap like this happens that puts us two steps back.
I would love to hear back from you after you do a little more resurch about the above people and give me your reasons on defending them. If you dont want to post here you can e-mail me directly at
Aburck410@aol.com
Adam Burck
Adam i to have been on both sides of the ownership fence. I also have been jailed and have been written up by usda in such a way to make my facility sound like the worse place for wildlife. Having to decide to put animals i raised for years down was very hard but more humane than sending to worse facilities
Darryl,
What were the names of those worse facilities?
Wade
Wade,
and this is why I so enjoy and love your blog.It ain't fluff!!
yours truly,
the girl of your dreams
Wade, Several so called sanctuaries in Florida to start with. The major one being Big Cat Rescue in Tampa.Another one being Octogon in Ft. Meyers to Name a few.
"make me worried that it wont be around for very much longer."
I've been worried about that for years.
"Every time we take a step forward in fighting the animal rights extremists, crap like this happens that puts us two steps back."
I'm sorry but you don't seem to be fighting all that much.
Not too many years back, a person who owned an animal OWNED the animal and what they did with it was their own business. Most industries, including the circus industry, have allowed laws to pass that infringe increasingly on the rights of ownership. It is allowing that which is the steps backward toward the British system of law where the government has the rights rather than the individual.
von Uhl's animals are HIS. If people don't like how he treats them, then they can easily show that by not going to his shows. What I don't understand is this blog not supporting his ownership rights.
It's called the No Spin Zone and I've only read a few entries but what I see is the animal rights activist spin being picked up and promoted. That's sad as it will promote the loss of animals and, therefore, the loss of shows of animals.
The livestock industries have finally begun to see that their previous position of allowing the activists to impinge on their rights was error and are now reversing course. I wonder if the circus industry will do the same or allow itself to die off as the animals are slowly seized.
http://pjboosinger.viviti.com
Is Poosinger nuts? Animals are not simply property to "do anything you want with", as Michael Vick assumed. Does she think that highlighting the Chinese tiger farms is Wade taking an AR viewpoint?
Hoffmann was keeping a miniature horse in a DOG CRATE. Is that ok with Poosinger? That there are people whose job it is to take animals away from seemingly mentaly ill animal hoarders makes me happy our country has regulations unlike China. It is people like Hoffman who have brought about the need for regulations and inspections, because obviously there is an endless supply of 'former circus super-stars' who don't have a clue what it takes to care for an animal.
Poosinger, why not do a Youtube search for Chinese dog fur industry or the bear gall farms or the Chinese tiger parks and come back and tell us that people should be able to do anything they want with animals. God Bless America
Steve,
As "chains" have been mentioned, do you recall the elephant that was pictured on the "history channel" tethered on a bare chain, with no padding or protection, in which we had a "discussion?" That was the same elephant we are talking about here.
Wade
P.J
I am a middle roader, I don't lean too far right, and I surely don't lean too far left. Nobody, and I repeat LOUDLY nobody has a "right" to do what ever it is they want to do with an animal, and they are not their property/possession like a video game or a car. It is an earned privilege to own them, not a legacy or birthright. As we can see by what is done in other countries, there are some things that need to be regulated in a civil society, two of the most important are human rights and animal welfare. We are the circusNOspinzone because both sides of the story are allowed to be discussed. No hidden agenda's. I for one don't think that your extreme left idea's of government conspiracy, have anything to do with animal welfare, and you are doing the animals an injustice hooking your "stop big Government" bandwagon to the issue. They don't need to be used anymore for private/personal agendas. I am thrilled that a new generation of animal people are seeing that a lot of things were real, real wrong and change was needed. I will forever have a heavy heart that it was mot done from within the industry, instead of waiting to be regulated.
Wade Burck
"they are not their property/possession like a video game or a car"
Legally, that's exactly what they are.
Don't accuse me of being a government conspiracy theorist. I've worked for 3 federal agencies. They're not that coordinated!
BTW, I'm a constitutionalist, neither right nor left in my leanings. I've been a registered Democrat my entire life. That is not inconsistent with believing in the US Constitution's guarantee of the fundamental rights to own property without undue regulation is proper and correct until and unless the constitution is changed and MOST of the regulation is quite "undue".
When people are persuaded to treat animals better, they get treated better; when it is forced/dictated/legislated, mistreatment simply gets hidden. That doesn't help the society and it darn sure doesn't help the animals.
"two of the most important are human rights and animal welfare"
And, Wade, that belief proves you are not middle of the road but far to one side of the road to start with when you include even animal welfare right alongside human rights; more so when you clearly mean animal rights rather than animal welfare.
P.J.,
No, I clearly mean "animal welfare" they don't have rights, but humans do. I don't know if my beliefs can be defined. I believe in what is good for the world, not what is good for me.
Wade
Anonymous,
It's "Burck." "Burck" not Burke. Come on weasel, dish it out, but gag when you have to take it. I know a lot of self serving far left liberals just like that. It is what it is, no matter how you try to color it.
Wade
Anon, The problem is in the government doing the dictating. As long as it can dictate one extreme, it can dictate the opposite. It's the inherent problem with trying to change a societal issue through dictatorial methodology and it simply doesn't work because it attempts to force change too quickly. Societies evolve and that takes time. When we dictate change too quickly, it actually slows down the real progression of a society.
What you propose is essentially beating the humans into compliance. We know what happens to animals that are beaten, it's counter productive. Ditto for humans and even more so because the humans are creative enough to learn how to do what they want more secretively and creatively.
The secondary problem is in elevating all animals to some level above that of property and that means that human rights are detrimentally affected. Although I generally prefer the company of animals to that of humans, I'm still not willing to elevate animals to a level that detrimentally affects human rights.
Jp,
You are very good at side stepping questions when they are presented to you. You didn't answer one of my questions but I will answer yours as I am not a coward.
First how do you know that I am not fighting all that much? What do you know about me? How long have i been in the circus? How long have I worked with animals? How many do I even own? It is a sigh of great ignorance when a person makes a statement without doing a little research to back it up.
Second I have heard many stupid things uttered in my life but your statement that we can do what ever we want with an animal is the most upsurd thing ever. As my father stated having animals is a privilege and they need to be treated as such.
I will ask a few questions to you again and see if you will be a man and answer them or cower in the corner like a coward.
According to your logic you would be ok with me keeping a 700 pound tiger in a dog kennel? Or never allowing an elephant to walk around? Would you be ok with a person who owns a dog act to put on a show, then in the middle of it beat the dogs to death? You sound as nuts and deranged as the animal rights people. If people did the right thing and treated animals as they should be treated we would not need laws, but people don't therefor laws are needed.
Owning an animal is like owning a car. It is a right not a privilege. With ownership comes certain responsibilities. The government doesn't say that you cant own a car, but if you drink and drive enough or you hit and kill someone with your car your privilege to own and operate that car is taken away, as it should be. Same with animals. If Mrs. Hoffman, And Mr Uhl, Or the countless other people who have had there animals taken away had followed the rules they would still have them. I for one am grateful that the government has rules governing the treatment of animals.
I have to agree with Wade and Adam on this one P.J. I am fairly new to the business, although I have had the privelage with working for several individuals and a large number of lions and tigers, as well as other exotic animals. Its like parenting. Everyone can have kids...but if you neglect them, and they are living in bad conditions, should you be aloud to keep them? I have never personally seen the hoffman or von uhl animals, so that is not where I am trying to go with this. I think that yes there are cases where certain individual inspectors differ and try to push their weight around. I have seen it, as well as any animal person. As far as the "you own them, that's your business" theory. That I can't agree with. You said it yourself, you own them. But in reality, they sort of own you. Without them, you don't have a pay check. And if someone does not agree, try it. Go into the ring, smile, style, and throw a lash without them. See how many offers you get. I agree with wade, there is a middle ground. However, thinking that the government is out to get you, while you are an angel, is the same thing as thinking that the cops are coming because you tore the tag off the mattress. Take care of your animals, and you will be fine. If you don't want to, well welcome to the 21st century. Keep up or drop out. Letting things fall apart only leads to more problems for the rest of us.
Adam, I'm happy to "man up" even if my the P in PJ stands for Pearl and I'm a mother.
Whether I'm OK with how someone cares for their animals is totally irrelevant to whether or not the government has any business whatsoever dictating how an individual or business' animals are cared for. The government gets to dictate what happens with motor vehicles on PUBLIC roads because there is a balancing with the rights of others who use those roads. If I have a vehicle on my private property and it never leaves my property, the government can't tell me to title, tag, carry insurance or any damn thing else.
The government has the right to regulate livestock that will end up on plates because THAT affects the public. They have the authority to dictate rabies vaccines because THAT affects public health. They have the right to tell us to confine animals because THAT affects public safety.
Pray tell how someone starving their dogs affects public health and safety? I may detest it. I may decide it's worth beating the snot out of the person doing it and risking a trial for assault even but what that person is doing to their dogs is NOT affecting public health and safety which is what the government should be limited to regulating.
The feds have even more limited authority as spelled out in the US Constitution and I'm tired of people who just decide that it's "good" for everyone so the Constitution be damned. That's how we ended up sterilizing humans and using humans in medical experiments without their consent not all too many years back. The purpose of the US Constitution is to protect our fundamental rights, including that of property ownership, from precisely this type of mob mentality where the majority decide for all regardless of fundamental rights.
Owning animals is NOT a privilege, that's straight up animal rights activism speak! My money buys an animal, that isn't a privilege, it's a right - plain and simple.
If the treatment of animals is important to the welfare of an industry (like it is to the circus and show industry), then the industry can regulate it or the market certainly will. That does NOT mean the government should be doing so. As you're all saying, with rights come responsibilities so don't weasel out on the industry responsibility of regulating by shoving the job off onto the governments and insisting they violate EVERYONE'S fundamental property rights along the way.
Nothing I've promoted keeps anyone from treating their animals quite well but what you're promoting will lead to such a high standard of minimal care that the average person can no longer have animals AND it will increase the cost of food astronomically.
P.J.
You can "man up", even if you are a women. Or are you one of those that we "hear me roar?" This is a brilliant idea, and I would vote for it if you could get it on a ballot someplace "will lead to such a high standard of minimal care that the average person can no longer have animals."
How in the world will taking exotic animals away from someone not abiding by the law of such, lead to higher food costs?
Wade
Pj
I would love nothing more than the circus industry to regulate itself, but history has proven that it can't. After years and years of doing things its own way the government finally had to step in and say enough is enough just like it had to with baseball and football. We brought it on ourselves and have only ourselves to. blame
"I would love nothing more than the circus industry to regulate itself, but history has proven that it can't."
It could and it would if it had to but some got impatient so federal law was faster and easier.
"... just like it had to with baseball and football."
HUH? You gots to be kidding. Both sports are filled with people who abuse people and animals and seem to get paid bigger bucks after doing so. There's a whole other set of laws that should never have been and have led to nothing but tax money going to private industry.
"We brought it on ourselves and have only ourselves to. blame"
Perhaps, but in allowing and encouraging federal laws, it has an impact on all other animal owners from livestock to pets; gives the feds and the public the idea that the government should be excessively butting in to private property matters and that costs us all. And, Wade, it is that extended impact that primarily affects food prices although it does so in other ways as well...
P'J.,
Boy, the whole world really sucks, doesn't it. Even athletes. Sure glad we have you riding shotgun on the payroll wagon. I know I am going to start sleeping better nights. The current "confiscations" affecting foot prices is sure a stretch. I guess if you reach far enough, you can even make 2 + 1= 4. If you take another step left, you are going to fall off the edge of the earth. All due respect.
Wade
i think as animal people in this business that we cannot defend what we know to be wrong , it doesnt give us credibility in any forum. we have to be able to admit when someone in our business is brining us all down. we will say that when a towner does something to bring us bad press but someone in the 'biz' does it they get a free pass... makes no sense. and do people think their usda files are secret? we all can find out how many chances you have been given.
yours truly
professional shit shoveler.
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