This is a sad story with a lot of responsibility to go around. A hay business in Florida lists this gentleman as ANIMAL TRAINER FOR RINGLING BROS CIRCUS, on their web site. Is that true? I thought he just contracted a tiger act to them? November 7th Show Biz Dave had this on his blog, "New York bars the elephant rides that seem to be keeping some shows clinging to life support. And who stronger to the defense than the CFA, which spells Circus Fans Association of America. Since when was the CFA a defender of the carny aspects of a midway? Since at least now. This is what I read in the July-August issue of The White Tops. Struck me as sadly odd or oddly sad that the CFA should be concerned about the ring-intrusive commerce that has both prolonged the careers of some under performing tent shows while further tarnishing the art of circus. But then again, as I have learned to see it, anything with the world “Circus” on it is guaranteed CFA adulation." When I questioned OABA representatives about the sense of all the work they seem to be doing in regards to elephant rides, and are they really that important, I guess this picture above says yes, which is what the OABA representative said also. He said, "today the rides, tomorrow elephant acts!!!" I think Show biz pointed out why a little more factually.
To the anonymous sad sack who commented, because their friend was angry I ran the picture of Ned, and had some unflattering things to say in regards to "weight", no disrespect to poor Ned intended, but this had to be a first in the circus, where the trainer weighed more then the elephant. That's how ignorant, and uninformed you comment was and sounded. I just wanted you to know that.
And to be fair and balanced, I think the Elephant Santuary in Tenn. exposed USDA with this statement: "Everyone always asks how an elephant is rescued. Jeff Kirlin, who took the photos, inadvertently (but fortunately) exposed Ned’s condition, prompting an outcry from the public followed by USDA’s confiscation." If Jeff Kirlin had to take thise photos as proof, I wonder what the USDA was looking at, when they did their periodic "surprise/unexpected inspections? Yet a couple of dozen circus folks upon finding out that I had been here, all with no exceptions said, "did you see his elephant?" When I asked him if USDA had seen it, he said, "yes, but as long as I have a vet looking at it there is nothing they can do." Unless a member of the public questions it, I guess.
I heard this elephant was on the "Maine Dates" What are the "Maine Dates" and who is the producer? Also can any elephant men tell use what those white marks are on the elephants hip, cheek, and elbow?
Saturday, November 15, 2008
Ned
Posted by
Wade G. Burck
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60 comments:
Who moved the elephant?
Wade, this is pitiful. Not only all the people in the industry who kept quiet about it, but all of the patrons who witnessed this poor elephant and kept silent, is apalling!
Mary Ann
That would likely be loss of pigmentation in the skin causing the white marks. This is often times associated with scar tissue from either a puncture wound or a rope burn.
I'm sorry those images are disturbing. Maybe I don't know enough about elephants but I can't justify taking an elephant on tour in that condition. Even if the responsible parites weren't concerned or felt like it wasn't bad for Ned's health to go on tour, what about the circus's reputation. If I was a producer I would never want the public to see an animal in that condition. One bad apple can bring a whole industry down. Even past that if a trainer showed up on "my" show with any animal that was that thin, I would personally make sure a vet got to see the animal (which may have been done, I don't know) I personally believe the circus has started to win some battles against the AR's activists but this just sets everything back.
I hope and pray that the industry will do what is best for both the industry and the animals in the industry.
The Maine dates refer to a string of Shrine dates located in, surprisingly, Maine! This was the first year the dates were not produced my Wayne McCary and instead were produced by two seperate producers james Hamid picked up the dates in Lewiston, portland, and Augusta for the Kora Shrine out of Lewiston while the Anah Shrine gave their dates to Struppi Hanneford, who framed the unit just for these dates, with a line up comprising of the Anastasini Family, Brett marshall BMX, and Charlie Von Buskirk as ringmaster, as well as, Ned
Wade, even more apalling is the fact that the USDA had seen it but did nothing because "a vet was looking at it".
Mary Ann
Dan,
I know exactly what the Maine Dates are. I just wanted it entered into evidence by somebody other then myself. And somebody just dodged a serious bullet. But, does anybody know if the President of OABA, Americas Circus supporter, and now liaison with the Monaco Mob and the Cirque Federation was visiting or saw the show where Ned was at.
Before anybody starts calling me a trouble maker, let's see how this soap opera plays out.
Thank you Dan for that information.
Wade
Casey,
The are pressure marks, similar to bed sores, where the bone is close to the surface of the skin with not much muscle mass to protect it. That's why it is at only points of the bone. eventually given enough time on a hard surface all of those would have been "bed sores."
Wade
Mary Ann,
With all due respect, don't be too harsh. Don't forget I had to keep leading you back and forth over the "white lion" video from Romania before you finally quit watching the show, and noticed the behavior of the animals. Many do not know what they are seeing or looking at. The ones that do, are often times told, "no, I think they are supposed to look like that."
Wade
Mary Ann,
Many times you have heard about the bad USDA, and many times you have heard me say, "oh come on, they are relatively lax, and give you lot's of opportunity to comply. It's not them it's the law, they are just enforcing it.
Wade
I had taken these photos simply as part of a much larger project documenting the people who work at a circus as part of a 'People at Work' series. I was given free and unfettered access while they were in Bangor, Maine.
The photos were posted to my flickr site and it was months before I got a letter from a woman at the Oakland Zoo asking if I could provide her with any information about the identity of the elephant or trainer and I told her as much as I knew and forgot about it.
While editng some photo sets and removing those photos as part of normal editing, I was contacted again and asked for the images, some of which you see posted here.
I later found out that these images were used to file a complaint with the USDA against the trainer.
I had mentioned in some emails with the people from Elephants.com that I wasn't on some elephant expose and it barely registered with me that there might be a problem because no one seemed concerned about anything.
What suprises me the most about all this is that my images were even needed. I mean, if it was as clear as it seems to be now shouldn't someone have caught this? This elephant wasn't trucked here in the dead of night, kept under cover and hustled back. I was surprised at the condition of the elephant and thought him a bit 'narrow' but then thought maybe they just aren't as fat as people think. The trainer allowed me to take all the photos I wanted and only suggested I stay out of the way but never to stop taking photos. Kids rode it. Other people connected with the Circus spent lots of time watching it.
So I've never really been able to piece together a chronology of what happened with the complaint and how or why my images ended up being needed.
Wade.
What a shame , a lack of Knowledge can do a lot of damage in all areas, one of the problems alone at certain angles Ned looks ok, but if you where to place him next to a "NORMAL" elephant the diference would be incredible, Looking at the skin and feet, not so bad seen much worse. I think more of the case bought an elephant, need to work, dont no. In the USA i have been told that elephant trainers used to help out each other this guy needs help. They could have asked a handful of people and they would have got good advice. I dont need to list names, even loosing 3 min of his day to send you an e mail i am shure he would nt like what you said but he would have an elephant in good condition. We all need help at sometimes. There was a elephant confiscated in Europe 2 years ago and was left in the truck for 4 days in a zoo car park. I offered to go along and clean the truck out with my guys and was told NO., on the 4 th day was sent to a zoo in Poland.
Truck $4000
Material $2000
Elephant $50000
Experience $ Priceless
Anonymous >5
You think Wayne McCary cares if he's not taking a cut off the top....come on now!
AC
Wade,
Unfortunately we see this often in the horse industry also. Look how many horses get taken away from owners because of neglect. I saw it often in Florida and I am seeing it more in Texas.
And it is getting worse. You can go to craigslist.com and literally see people trying to give horses away right now because of the economy.
Of course it's worse in this case because the elephant was still performing and that's all the AR people need to sock another one onto circus...
IF the fact was Ned had a problem and couldn't keep weight on then the problem needed to be investigated. Of course, that takes money to do and if he can't perform, how does one get the money to get the medical attention he needed..
Of course, there is also the human ego involved when one feels humiliated to ask for financial help if need be. Definately a vicious circle and in this case it looks like Ned took the blunt of it all.
Just another way to possibly look at this sad situation.
Do you know where he will go once he gets healthy and has to leave?
Any employee of our federal government is a public servant and are not a judge, jury or bexecutioneer. Any federally licensed person should be given all statistics in regard to being cited for an infraction of the rules in regard to licensing. Before an abimal should be taken away from the licensed exhibitor it should be medically determined what causes the situation and if it is determined that it is healthy then the exhibitor should be cited and told to add some significant weight to said animal before the next inspection. In our wonderful democratic society, the envy of the world, every man is innocent till proven guilty.
I have seen numerous humpbacked, ribs showing tigers performing for the public. I would suggest that there doesn't seem to have been a public outcry in the media concerning the weight of said elephant and it seems that hundreds of people enjoyed their elephant ride. I agree that it is an embarrasment for the owner trainer to exhibit such an animal and in the eyes of those in the field his reputation is not enhanced. But I have recently seen other elephants that need to be looked at by the proper officials in being "Skinney". The "Maine Dates" are not the only place that this elephant has been shown by various producers and I must agree with Wade that certainly other producers and show people were visitors and saw the condition of the animal. In years gone by it was not unusual to see skinny animals and people as well because of the economic conditions of the times. While traveling in Europe a number of years ago I saw alot of circus elephant herds that appeared to be short on groceries.
The Tenrssee facility certainly does not have a "Sterling reputation" and I would suugest that it would receive considerable financial reward in getting the animal "in shape". It seems that the liscensed corrent owner could be subject to improving the condition of the animal. I recall hearing that one of the Davenports were denied the exhibiting of two elephants until the took them to their wtrqtrs. and got them in shape. I don't belive the animals were confiscated. My own opinion as usual.
Thought about my choice of words earlier as I was doing chores. Maybe should have used the word Pride instead of Ego.
Ignoring the risk of getting verbally abused...........
Maybe, we could get together and pitch in financially to help Ned?
At least it would give us something to do to help the situation instead of just looking where to point the finger........
Just another thought thrown out there for discussion...
Hi Jody,
If there was someway to in fact help Ned instead of just fillingy Buckley's pockets I would be more then willingy to help raise money for Ned.
Logah
Jody,
It has nothing to do with not having the finances to feed the elephant.
Wade
Logan,
Those kind of statements are wrong. If we accept a place to keep rescued dogs, cats, horses, why is elephants hard to accept.
Wade
Of course, John, I was waiting for the first person who would make the sanctuary the bad guy in this issue.Since, in your opinion, they are more guilty than the owner, and God forbid they raise money to feed, vet and house the animals that some in the industry would prefer to see die in some godforsaken Florida backyard.Where are the EMA fundraisers to police and aid the elephants in distress? This individual got off easy having others pay the veterinary bills for the elephant. Frankly he should have had every penny he made from exhibiting Ned confiscated for his care. As much as circus people like to gossip, don't tell me that there weren't many, many people who knew about the situation and didn't do a damn thing. It reminds me of the Germans who lived close to the concerntration camps who claimed ignorance of what was happening under their noses.
No, John, the people who do the work of rehabilitating the animal cast offs from the people who make their living from them aren't the villains here. It's the people who got those animals in that condition in the first place.
Will he go to a zoo when he is able?
I believe the Elephant is going to end up at PAWS in Califorina..
Mr. Kirlin,
I had assumed as much, after reading the statement from the Elephant Sanctuary. I mentioned the same to Casey in a private conversation. The reason for opening this up is not to grind an ax, as some would think, or as the anonymous comments I have had to delete(and there have been many) suggest. I am concerned at a citizen complaint was what got the ball rolling, Many people looked at the elephant, and didn't know something was not right, that in it's self is sad enough, but there was many times, if USDA felt there was an issue to make a move, but it seems to me they had to be shamed into it. There is something wrong with that. But the worst is that it took a citizen posting pictures that he didn't really think were that bad, for a citizen group to get it rolling. I am a little bit afraid of the power of that citizen group, and their motivation.
I appreciate you responding to this issue, and will look forward to further comments from you.
Wade
I agree 100% with the last comments made by Logan and Wade. Check out their website -
- "The Elephant Sanctuary must make every effort to raise a minimum of $185,000.00 as a restricted donation to be set aside, in perpetuity, as an endowment for each rescued elephant."
If you add up all the amounts they have posted, TES has hundreds of thousands of dollars.
- "Currently, Jenny's Memorial Fund is $233,769.33. Jenny's fund will used to rescue and care for another needy elephant in her memory."
The actual amount posted is $34,321.34. They have the money, and with PETA and every other AR activist throwing money to them there are no issues at all.
There is a sanctuary, that contributes and cooperates with both zoos and circuses alike in the goal of medical research, wildlife support in natural habitat and human conflict, and breeding. This aims toward the benefit of the entire species, not just the elephants it can get its hands on. That's where donations should be geared towards. Or other institutions with similar goals, such as the International Elephant Foundation.
Maybe I should proofread -
The actual amount is $341,321.34.
an endowment uses only the interest from the account. The principal stays in the account for perpetuity. Proper elephant husbandry for an elephant (vs the circus version)is an expensive proposition. Rehabititation is extremely costly. I don't imagine that the sanctuary's costs per animal are above those of tax-payer supported zoos.
While the sanctuary does support international elephant causes, their purpose is not that, any more than the local dog shelter has any interest in supporting dog breeders. With the number of aged elephants in the country, all options should be open. If you feel that someone is handling things better than TES, by all means support them. But, since those who have benefitted from the use of elephants seem reluctant to pony up the money once their golden goose is old and worn out, they should be grateful for the AR supporters who put their money where their (admittedly big)mouths are.
Ned provided a nice living and retirement for those who worked him. He deserves at least the same.
Circus fans are not the circus police. Nor judge. Nor jury. Maybe people in the business should be. Maybe the USDA could have done better. Maybe.
Some fans have taken a lot of heat from their favorite shows for telling them like it is - that animal care and public relations must be a top priority.
Some people on this blog have a lot to say. Sure hope you are DOING something about animal care within your business. Stop picking on fans, who, by the way, buy your product. Automatic adulation? Because you're a circus you think a fan automatically adores you? That might have been the case in 1960 - but no more.
Fans buy the product? A whole lot of CFA'ers have forgotten the motto of pay your way....the walk onto a lot and expect a free roll...funny how times have changed!
Anonymous,
Where would you get the impression that fans were getting picked on. I have stated that for the most part they are a great group of people, with exceptions in every organization. Is that why you did not sign you name, are you one of those who like to tell them what to do, buy not who is doing the telling?
Wade
Hi Wade, et al.: I am a circus fan and I have worked in the business too, so I have few illusions left. We CFA members saw Ned worked at the CFA Convention in FL in April. I wouldn't have known if he was sick or not, I just know that I was scared to death. Elephants scare the Bejesus out of me, but that was taught to me on Circus Vargas by Wally Ross, as Mr. Vargas had more than one killer in his herd at the time. I remember sitting in front of an end ring at Vargas long after I was with the show when Rex Williams' had the herd and one of the bulls knocked over the presenter and ran out of the ring directly toward me in the second row of chairs. I would have been the first one out of the tent, but for some young kids in front of me in the first row who didn't know what was happening. I picked up one of the empty folding chairs next to me and hit the bull as hard as I could when it got up to the kids in front of me. It happened so fast, it was the only response I had. The elephant stopped and started backing up and turned and went back into the ring as Rex on horseback came jumping over ring curbs and props to get the bull back in line. He thanked me after the show and said I probably saved the kids in front of me by suprising the elephant. This only backed up my dread of elephants. This brings me back to Ned at the CFA Show; Ned was/is one huge bull and the little Alain Zerbini Top was jammed to the rafters with Fans and showfolks right up to the ring curb. I was terrified the whole time that elephant was in the tent and I was sitting at least 15 rows back.
Now, only seeing an elephant once in a great while up here in Minnesota, I'm not so sure that I could tell if an elephant was sick or not. Maybe if a "normal" elephant was standing next to a very skinny one- perhaps, maybe. BUT CFA Members are not experts, although some think that they are- they are not. There are lots of Know-it-alls in the CFA ranks, but I believe the majority of Fans are well-meaning and do truly love the circus, not only for what it was in days gone by, but for what it is now. I know too, as a Fan that I always buy a ticket the first thing when I show up on a lot. I have had any number of owners and performers tell me that I'm stupid to do so and that I'm always welcome, so now I sometimes buy a ticket first and enter through the back door by invitation. For multiple date shows, I often buy several tickets, as I like to see shows one right after the other. And I have literally caught Hell for doing this too. Yes, I think some Fans are a real pain in the ass and sometimes I find myself apologizing for these folks, even though it makes me cringe. There are good showfolks and detestable showfolks, as well as there are good Fans and detestable ones, but I don't think it's fair to lump all Fans together, just like I don't think it's fair to lump all showfolks together.
Neil Cockerline
Minneapolis, MN
Neil,
Neither do I think it is fair to stereotype, and my record speaks to that. It is why I reference it, as a rule, or for the most part. But we should be thankful that those children's memory of the circus, was not a bad one. And the circus fans you obviously don't know a healthy elephant from an unhealthy one, are the one's posting statements apparently endorsed by my self and the industry, that we then have to answer to or try to justify. Think about it Neal. We need to address where the misunderstandings have come from. Just because somebody treated you to a popcorn, may not mean they are one of the dirtiest around.
Wade
Wade,
I do not feel that my statement was in the wrong. I do not support that facility and it has absolutely nothing to do with an anti-circus comments that come out of their or the fact that they ended up with Ned or any other elephant.
Logan
Logan,
Do you support any sanctuaries such as the American Humane Society or any others, or are you against all sanctuary's or the concept of sanctuary? Or just some?
Wade
Hi Wade,
There are some sanctuaries that I do support. I do think there is a need for sanctuaries for various species.
As far as the American Humane goes I did not realize they were a sanctuary. I thought they were strictly an animal welfare organization and that they didn't actually take in animals themselves.
Logan
Not to change the subject,
I see Poncho lost the Indy Jones hat. How long are you keeping the Ron Jeremy stache my friend,,,,,,lol
Logan,
Of those various animal species, do you think there is a need for a feline sanctuary, or elephant sanctuary? And what qualifies one to be a good sanctuary worthy of donations, and what would make one unworthy? That's what we are trying to establish. There is a need for them, some of them are good, etc. Which ones and why?
Wade
In response to Wade's comment, why must it be deemed a "sanctuary" to have merit? Or be the saving place? Pittsburgh is putting together a great thing with their new Conservation Center, and the AZA is doing the same with the facility in Florida that will be opening next year. They are built with the intentions of conservation, breeding, research, an improved home for elephants in many different aspects, and giving a home to let "elephants be elephants." Regardless of differences in philosophy and management, in all of these scenarios it seems the elephants are being well taken care of - the end result and happy ending for all, correct? Supporting one over another is the same as supporting one political party over another.
Neil, who was the bull you mentioned in your story? Kudos for your bravery, and thank you for saving the life of man and elephant alike.
And Casey, my friend, I work in the service department for several highline vehicles. I was told by one of my technicians that without facial hair, no customer would ever believe they needed five grand worth of work from a twelve year old. Hence the rugged handsomness.
Ryan
Ryan,
Conservation Center and Sanctuary mean two different things, one it to conserve or save, and the other is to protect from harm, a place to rest from danger. Ned would be of no use to a conservation center, and Nic would be of borderline use.
Wade
Is 17 llama hairs growing out of an upper lip "rugged handsomeness"?,,,lol
A big issue we come to here is, where else could Ned have gone besides where he ended up? And don't everyone scream zoo or sanctuary at the same time. Fact is, retiring a castrated male elephant is tougher most people realize. This is not an excuse for anyone, I would just like to hear some opinion on what the rite answer could be. We have animals as our own, and make a living through them, we obviously owe them something when we or they become to old to coexist. But ask yourself "If you were retiring in your late 60s and owned a 17 year old male elephant (keep in mind no one needs him as a breeder) what would you do?
Could you drive up to a sanctuary and drop him off?
Could you keep him the 2-4 years a zoo will likely need to be ready for him?
Would you try to take care of him in your old age, knowing it wasn't really safe?
Or sell him to the first youngster who had ambition to continue along with him?
I am not suggesting this was the scenario or anything, I have just been thinking alot about what option are out there for retired animals.
Maybe before selling him to that first youngster, you'd want to make sure that the youngster hasn't already made himself a record of welfare act violations. If you couldn't find a youngster whose record was clean, maybe that sanctuary would be a really good idea.
But Mr. Herriot brings up an interesting point. What of the Davenports, whose elephants having lost a great deal of weight were also worked all over the country with apparently no outcry from the public or the circus folk. And how many others?
Casey,
Dianne, Jody or others can verify, but I know of very, very few trainers who are looking for a place for the horse they have had for most of it's life, when they retire. The old war horse is given a great easy life. I'm not talking the one taken in for training and they given back to the owners. I talking the personal animals that they have performed with most of the animals life. It is a rare exception that they are looking for a new home for the animal, unless it is a physical problem that they can't deal with at their facility. No you should not be able to just drop it off. And unless it is a breeding animal of what use would it be to a zoo. That is my strongest objection to declawing of purebred cats. Hawthorn didn't castrate a male tiger until 1988, when there was a sufficient gene pool in their whites. Did it make them harder/tougher. You bet it did. Should we castrate male elephants? I really don't think it is wise at this point. If you can't provide for them in your retirement, possibly an escrow account should be initiated with funds put in to assure their wellbeing upon retirement. The options are not there for an "exotic" that are there for domestics.
Wade
I believe the last anonymous mentions a specific name....let me check...yep.
The Davenport elephant that is-was thin, was quarantined to its home facility until which time it gained a pre determined amount of weight, and passed a health exam from a USDA chosen vet. I am not endorsing the elephant going back out, because I have not seen it since, but the USDA made a choice based on a lengthy investigation.
I do like when Circus animals have a problem, they don't just point a finger at Zoos and Rodeos, no we will even point out other elephants with the same problem and say "why don't you shut this guy down too" We are a special breed,,,lol
As far as the elephants working across the country with out outcry from the public or show folks..you are wrong there was plenty of outcry of both kinds, and I can attest that something was done about it by the USDA. Whether it was enough is yet to be seen. Contrary to what most people may say or think, the USDA is on OUR side. They are an agency set to protect us as exhibitors as much as regulate them. If you have a problem they should really be the first people to know if it is animal related, because they can HELP,,,and I myself have had luck with that.
Wade,
The fact that there are so few places for exotics to retire may be the biggest issue yet. It probably won't matter for a whole lot longer, seeing there aren't elephants coming over anymore. But if there were, or if there is alot more success in breeding, the government may have to be involved in.
Casey,
Isn't Davenports a show or circus? I thought it was. You know I don't know a lot of the smaller deals. You seem to have a problem with this particular anonymous? They seem to ask very good questions without animosity?
I really don't think it is the Governments business, any more then they should provide for retired horse, dogs, show cattle, or any other privately owned animals. The private sanctuary seem to be a useful thing, as long as they don't become a dumping ground for poorly trained animals. If they have a criteria or standard of some sort, I would think it would be worth while to meet their standard. But it is up to each person to provide the best for them. And until we have a standard that will be subjective, and some will make it bad for others, unless they work twice as hard with their public relations.
Wade
Wade, you made the statement "Hawthorn didn't castrate a male tiger until 1988, when there was a sufficient gene pool in their whites. Did it make them harder/tougher. You bet it did." Are you saying that castration made the tigers harder/tougher, or what?
Mary Ann
Mary Ann,
Intact male's are tougher in any species. There is the exception where a castrated male is aggressive but it is the exception. There is also the exceptional male who is whole and does not get aggressive. Normally if they are castrated to late after reaching sexual maturity, it will not alter their behavior. Done early, it does alter their behavior. It is why so many horse's are gelded, unless a skill rider has them, and there is a preference for the spirit of a stallion, or they are breeding sires. But the testosterone makes them goofy at times. Geldings tend to be timid and quitters. Mares have a lot more heart and try, and were the preferred mounts for a Generals war horse, but once a month they are shitheads. Some colts are what is called "proud cut". That's where only one testicle is removed, and the animal retains the fire of a stallion, but does not have the breeding capabilites.
Wade
Addendum to Mary Ann,
Because they were all whole, it lead to the unskilled old wives tale of them being insane, or mentally inferior.
Wade
No problem with the question, so much as who is asking it. Does it not seem odd that reading the names beside all these comments, only one name is currently working in the profession?
I feel certain that others in the field have opinions on these issues, where are they? Are they worried cocktail hour at the club or backyard Bar-B-Q's won't be as much fun if they chime in? I don't buy into the "well we don't need to air any of this in public cause it puts us ALL in a worse light". Thats how we got into the mess we are in, not addressing the issues of the public. I don't see any other animal owners who have suggestions on where these animals should end up when we are done earning our living with them. Which I was not suggesting the Gov provide a place, I was suggesting that before anyone can own an animal that will potentially out live its owner, they might need to have a long term plan as to where it will end up and prove they do to the Gov. The escrow account you suggest is the only suggestion so far. Maybe like a 401k for elephants. Does no one else in the industry have an opinion? Or do they, but don't want their name associated because some of their friends would disagree?
Casey,
I never heard anybody say anything about not airing something in public, as it puts us in a bad light. I just think you learn early on, do not go against or speak wrong of the holy of holies, the virgin mother called Circus. Dan ran right over to tell us what the Maine Dates were, and when he found out why I asked he disappeared. What about the pictures that disappeared of Ned? Again, how about it Wayne McCary, what did you think of Ned's condition? I can't believe a person is so busy getting his taste that he doesn't have time to watch the show, being a lover and afficianato of the circus and all. There Casey I asked again, Let hold our breath for an answer should we. Let me ask Ms. Van de Meer again about ECA/Cirque Federation leopard issues, and maybe she can clear them up with Mr. McCary and confiscated elephants giving children rides on the "Maine Dates". Maybe it is a thing called "culture" that I don't understand. Look at the multitude of issues that have been left open ended on the blog. When some folks think "screw him" it isn't worth talking about, some folks think, he must be right, nobody disputed it. Unconcern/ignoring may not give the impression we want it to. At least this issue has been talked about with out "much" animosity or name calling and that is a start. You seem to just be addressing elephants, and outliving their owner.
If you ask enough with out a response Casey, that is the light that the public sees, heads buried in the sand, addressing only pretend feel good issues. Ignoring anything else.
Wade
As someone who is about to venture into the area of private animal ownership I believe that if you use any animals to make your living or any money with you should use some of that money that they helped you make to provide them with a comfortable retirement. they were used to make our lives easy the lest we should do is return the favor when they cant work anymore.
Adam
I was sent down last year to mr. Ramos place in Florida by my employer to pick up some tigers for my act. The things i saw down there frankly as an animal person made me sick. He was in the process of breaking some lions for a new act. And i do mean breaking. I wont go into the details of what i witnessed during the training sessions but I can tell you i was physically ill by what i saw. upon my return to Illinois i was told that at the end of the year i was to go back down and pick up another tiger. I told my employer that I would rather quite and never work with animals again than go back down there and give this man anymore of my time or our business. When I told people in the circus industry what i had witnessed i was told not to stir up any trouble. That is the problem with this business, either we don't say anything because we might offend a friend or it will bring a bad light on the rest of us. This is a bad attitude to have because if nothing is said it will only get worse if not for us then those who would follow us. the easiest way to put an end to people like that is to stop hiring them,but as long as producers are willing to tlook the other way in order to make a buck it will never end.
Agreed with most everything said here, but I have to chuckle at Casey's comment about the few posting here who are not currently in the business. The usual patch is "but that was 20-30-50 years ago, things are different now" Doesn't seem much different now except that yesterday's offenses could be dismissed as hearsay or gossip by disgruntled employees. Toady's offenses are backed up by photo and video evidence. In order to prove the point that things are different today, one would have to see the end of the regular stream of provable accusations. Sometimes there aren't two sides to every story other than one side is right and the other wrong.
Anonymous,
Maybe you will agree with this, maybe you won't, but it comes from someone who had no preconceived ideas and formulated opinions by what he saw.
The biggest factor in non response is not having the comfort of anonymous. Circus folks like to change their opinion, depending on which opinion is the most financially feasible. I disagree with the contention that Casey said about losing work. That will never be a problem if there is work to be had, and you can change your ideals fast enough. The thing folks are the most afraid of is getting tarred and feathered and run out of the world on a rail. Oh, that's right it is a warm and fuzzy world isn't it. Actually it is a world run by a very few, which has now become a few elitists, with anybody that care to hook a ride to be seen and perceived as special. IF you think I am wrong, how about you start posting with your name, and we say good bye to anonymous. I am not buying your reasoning for using it any more.
Wade
In regards to Adam's comment, don't forget that that occurred because I refused to pick up 4 de clawed tigers from a roadside zoo in exchange for 3 old white ones which had served well. The hardest most difficult thing in the world is to keep some semblance of pride and ethic's about animals, in a world where if you do you are frowned upon and if you don't somebody will stupidly say you are biting the hand that feeds you. I am grateful that my son will be able to get out of that sad state, and into the easier world of making your own decisions about your animals.
Wade
Thats just it Anonymous,
I don't believe That I, and now Adam, are the only "working" people from this field who are reading this, have an opinion (either way), or are posting comments (I assume a few anonymous' are from the field) But if you are putting anonymous as your name because you don't want the "with-it and for-it" crowd hot at you down at the club, you must not be to solid on your opinion. I noticed you had little trouble typing my name. Nut up and put your own on there to...
Casey,
This world is as different as anything folks can ever imagine that they have been involved with in the "outside world." One of those big difference's is the world of contracted to somebody, and doing their bidding, and the world of private ownership and doing your own bidding. It takes great courage to speak out about what you are made to do.
Wade
The Elephant Sanctuary moved him—without using chains—in their own specially designed transport trailer. Under USDA escort.
www.elephants.com/Ned/nedDiary.php
There are constant financial requirements the Elephant Sanctuary must meet besides basic care.
Not only do they support seperate habitats for Asians & Africans, but in the majority of cases elephants arrive at the Sanctuary in very poor physical shape. Many are severely underweight, some have extremely debilitating foot problems, some arrive already infected with TB. Maintaining seperate quarantine zones for infected elephants while they undergo treatment isn't cheap, either. And TB drugs, oh yeah I'm sure PETA is covering that tab!
The Santuary is very involved in research, they just feel their Sabctuary exists for the elephants, bit the circuses or zoos who treated them badly enough to end up at the Sanctuary in the first place.
Oct. 26, 2013
It was dawn, and African elephant Thandi stood calmly chewing her early morning meal of tree leaves and twigs -- until she caught sight of our TV crew, gingerly approaching.
The 9,000-pound matriarch paused, took a step forward, and stared at the man she's known for 16 years John Lehnhardt, the executive director of the new National Elephant Center.
"It's going to be all right Thandi," he said.
Just a few yards away, her friend of 20 years, Moyo, and her two male calves Tufani and Tsavo, looked to Thandi for guidance.
"She's trying to make sure you're not a threat to her family," Lehnhardt said.
A few minutes went by, with only mosquitoes breaking the stillness. Suddenly, Thandi turned back to resume her breakfast. She had given her silent consent, allowing us to visit her home.
Thandi is part of the first elephant family to live in the National Elephant Center in Fellsmere, Fla., which opened earlier this year.
Supported by zoo donations, the 225-acre facility aims to preserve the threatened species while also offering a home to any elephant in need. By providing an environment closer to the animals’ natural habitat, managers of the sprawling park hope to eventually help elephants reproduce and enjoy a better quality of life.
But that doesn't mean the baby elephants will be sold.
"We will never buy or sell an elephant. We don't believe that that's right," said Lehnhardt.
The center's mission is to function as a "plan B," in case conservation efforts in the wild do not succeed.
“It’s important for us to have a backup plan,” said Lehnhardt, who plans to provide a home to 45 elephants. “We want to be able to develop a self-sustaining population of elephants.”
Elephants in Africa are being killed at a rate of 35,000 to 50,000 a year for their ivory, according to conservation experts. That means on an average day, 96 elephants lose their life to poachers.
At that rate, African elephants could be extinct in the next decade, said Washington State University professor Sam Wasser. His organization, Conservation Biology, has been tracking ivory seizures and advocating for tighter international anti-poaching law enforcement for decades.
Wasser believes organized crime groups are driving the poaching because ivory sales are so profitable.
"The wildlife trade has now become the fourth largest transnational organized crime in the world, just under drugs, weapons and human trafficking," he said.
A pound of ivory can fetch $700 in China. Poachers sometimes resort to sharpshooters in helicopters to kill dozens of elephants in minutes, while workers on the ground quickly sever the animals’ faces to remove the pricey tusks.
Another emerging killing technique is cyanide poisoning. The Telegraph reported this week that 300 elephants in Zimbabwe’s largest national park have been killed using that method over the past three months alone.
Often poachers leave only the youngest elephants of a heard alive, favoring the adults and their large tusks.
During the 1980s, Thandi and Moyo were young, nursing calves when their families were killed in Zimbabwe. The two have been inseparable ever since.
Lehnhardt says their friendship has helped them cope with the "tremendous trauma'" they endured when they were orphaned. They were sold as babies to a Tacoma, Wash., zoo in 1983, and then to Disney's Animal Kingdom in 1997.
Disney allowed the two friends and Moyo’s calves to move to the National Elephant Center in May to give the family more space to enjoy their time together before Tufani leaves the herd. He’s 10 years old. Male elephants separate from their herds in their teens, or are pushed out by the family matriarch.
“They’re kind of like a teenage boy in our society,” said Jeff Bolling, Chief Operating Officer of the Center. “They just want to go roughhouse and play real hard then the females kind of help the process and push them out of the house a little bit.”
The Center sits on a citrus grove, and Moyo was first to notice the juicy Valencia oranges growing on trees. “She sucked the orange to the end of her trunk, which is really part of their nose, and she picked it from the tree, put it in her mouth, and I just saw her eyes light up like, 'Oh my,'" Lehnhardt said. “They all started picking oranges like crazy.”
Adult elephants can consume 300 pounds of food in a day.
Many conservationists oppose the idea of holding elephants captive. But for the close to 500 elephants already in captivity in the U.S., Lehnhardt says the National Elephant Center may provide a future home. He expects some zoo managers to ask if they can send elephants there to retire. “We have a responsibility to provide them the best life that we can,” he said.
More than $2 million in donations from zoos paid for the facility's construction. Unlike a zoo, however, the center is not open to the public.
“We just want elephants to be elephants,” said Lehnhardt, who has dedicated most of his life to helping these threatened animals. "They are family oriented. They're honest and straightforward. We should learn from them."
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