Tuesday, September 9, 2008
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A Blog designed for discussion of topics related to, but not limited to, Circus, Zoos, Animal Training, and Animal Welfare/Husbandry. Sometimes opening up the dialog is the best starting point of all. And if for nothing else when people who agree and don't agree, get together and start discussing it, it will open up a lot of peoples minds. Debate and discussion even amongst themselves opens a window where there wasn't one before.
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20 comments:
This is exactly the reason I hate to see a capriolle ridden. No matter how talented the rider, how good the horse there is no way to "look cool" riding this manuver, I have seen the same at the Spanish Riding School to a lessor degree. It is my opinion.
Madame Col.,
You know I agree with you completely, and it is also my opinion. As I have stated in the past I have only seen a few Caprioles done "clean/correct" the first attempt. The majority are attempted a number of times, and as a rule look very brutal. If something is not absolutely correct, wait tell it is until you present it, or quit wasting your time, accept the individual animal is not capable, and move on to something he is capable of.
Did Albert ride his Black Lippizan in a capriole for a while?
Wade
No Albert's black Lipizan did corbettes not caprioles. Whole different ball game and they are ridable. He rode corbette jumps 4-6 in a row, used a Spanish School Riding saddle (has a back).
He did caprioles with a Andalusian mare on the Lipizzan show but on long lines like the rest of us. I rode a capriole one time not by choice on a big Hanaverian. We were unaware he was trained such, I rode it safely but I was young and courageous but have to admit I never went that direction again. It's breathtaking.
Madame Col.
Big deal. I did a corbette running backwards. Breathtaking is doing it with a tiger. The only time I did a capriole on a horse, it was my fault as I should have lunged him for a bit before I got on. Never did anymore after I learned from that first one. Although Contess wanted to perform one a couple of times in her early day's when paper cups blew under her feet, I wouldn't let her. LOL
Wade
Wade - Mary tried to post this, but was having password issues and asked me to post it for her.
Oh well, it was a great feeling for many years to know that I was one of a very small group of ladies that ever did a sidesaddle capriole. You guys are a little brutal but in all honesty, it was designed for warfare and wasn't done from the ground unless the rider was unseated and needed time to get back on.
As a Hall of Fame Inductee for International Side Saddle Organization and three time Instructor of the Year for World Sidesaddle Federation and current member of American Sidesaddle Association, I had hoped to share some sidesaddle notes here that were accumalated over the years in circuses (Dorothy Hurbert was my first sidesaddle instructor), training and judging in the Midlands in England, and various other Equine Affairs and venues. I can see this is one more list of "one uppers" who fail to see the the hard work and painful efforts put forth to fulfill dreams if it is accomplished differently from your own way. It has occured to me numerous times over the years that I have learned from almost everyone I have met. There is always another way or an easier way or a better way but still, sharing is learning.
Respectfully yours,
Mary Rivers
Posted by Jeannie
Jeannie,
Quick stop her before she gets to the door!!!!! I don't understand what the issue is with a password, none are necessary. Google in Circusnospin, and you should go right to a link to click on.
Mary,
With all due respect back at you, we are allowed to freely express our opinions here. Look at the blog. I even let idiots post with an ignorant opinion(see Casey McCoy, Mike Swain, etc.) I even let Steve Robinson think his opinion is worth a shit, because he knows Robert Perry, and he thinks I am argumentative. LOL
I personally would love to know more about side saddle, as I expressed to Jeannie one time, but there is not much available on the subject and very few people doing it. Most of us on this blog have accomplished great things in our chosen field, again with the exception of of Casey and Mike, in our chosen field, as have you and don't need to prove anything to anybody. It is not "oneupmanship", it is a comfort and pride in our achievements that gives us a light hearted comradeship.
Jeannie bolted through the screen door the first time she came to this house and, I was afraid I was going to have to send her a bouquet of flowers to come back, and that would have sucked.
My email is wburck3@aol.com I would love for you to send any photos you might like to share and offer your expertize on the art. If you want to rang Col. Herriott up, tell him you learned a little of your craft in Europe, before Wade Burck really showed you what a horse was about. LOL
Regards,
Wade
Addendum to Jeannie,
Here I am again, a stallion in a pasture full of broodmares, getting the soup kicked out myself, just trying to get one small mouthful of oats before it's all gone. God, is it any wonder I'm head shy. Broads would bring General Stonewall Jacksons War Horse to his knees, or begging to go back to the front lines where it wasn't as dangerous. LOL
Wade
Mary,
When you talk about hard work and effort, I have videos of my oldest son Adam who was about 14 practicing with the first Cossack act in America, and trying to stay in those little pillow saddles they use while the horse ran at a full gallop around the ring. I went in the other room and cried on a number of occasions when he would come home to shower with open 4 inch in diameter raw wounds on his inner thighs, and I would get ill thinking of him getting back on the next day and tearing off what scab had started to heal during the night. But he didn't quit, because he believed in what he was doing.
Wade
Wade - I didn't know flowers were an option or I would have held out longer.
Jeannie
Jeannie,
Because I have dealt with my share of women, trust me it wasn't a long option. 10 minutes and it is off the table, and I move on to the next one, which is the best one, until such time there is another best one. The smart stallions learn that if they are tolerant and take their licks, eventually somebody is going to take him up to the breeding shed, where somebody will be glad to see him. LOL
Wade
"A Stallion in a pasture full of Broodmares".
Now where did I put my Emasculator?
Hey Wade Jerk....I mean Burck
What's the big idea. An actual horse person chimes in about her photo being picked apart, and you try to use Steve, Mike, and I as a diversion...
I got you accomplishments...
,,!,,
Casey,
That's the point. Her picture didn't get picked apart. I even pointed out that the photo was taken on the way down. Madame Col. made a valid point that it is hard to look graceful riding a capriolle, and I agreed, as it is true.
I just wanted her to know everyone with a name can express an opinion regardless of how ridiculous, and your name was one of the first to pop into my head. LOL
Wade
Jody,
Emasculator!!!!!! I was at least hoping for a nice warm AV, and a non confrontational phantom.
Wade
Its amazing that my old friend and co-worker Dorothy Herbert [we worked liberty horse together in the same display in 1954 and I would see her in subsequent years during trips Calif. When old friend Ernestine Clarke Baer would buy her six liberty ponies would suddenly turn up in the lives of othgers. The sidesaddle was not meant for "cowgirl riding" but as a lady like way of riding without having to sit astride both sides of the horse and a good lady sidesaddle horse was always one that cantoured to the inside [left lead] so that the lady would not be thrown off balance. The great trainer, Ray Thompsen trained a number of outstanding sidesaddle horses and riders including one Kathryn Thompson and one Dorothy Thompson [Herbert] for success on the Vaudeville stage and major circuses. He was known to be quite brutal with horses and women.
Yes Mary, as I stated no matter the talent, it is a difficult manuver to ride. That wasn't a critical remark but one of fact. I too rode sidesaddle and found that all the buttons could be tranferred to one side and actually found it quite interesting. I also found it very easy to ride the rears (I had a horse that walked walked quite a distance on his hind legs under saddle) the leg grip was very comforting and not uncomfortable at all. The problem was when I was trying it out saddles were not available as they are now and to ride it more than likely the saddle was so old that it wasn't safe. I admire the decipline though. I know Dorita did sidesaddle also. Bring on more pictures, would love to see them.
Col. Herriott - With all due respect, how can you call someone a great trainer and then state that he was known to be "quite brutal" with horses?
Jeannie
Actually, ladies rode aside to settle the west beside thier military husbands. They wore the braid of thier husbands rank and often saw to the running of supplies in the forts. The most famous of the western sidesaddles was the Goodnight saddle. It is still the basis for the designs of a lot of the Mexican and American made western sidesaddles. Many of the saddles out there are either too small for todays horses or built by saddlers that don't understand how a sidesaddle sits on a horse. Astride bars with the stirrup in the same place as a normal western saddle will roll like crazy but you can find some very expensive ones out there. Most of the Hilason trees roll very badly, as well. The good old name English saddles are hard to find but they are cherished when you do. So, I proclaim that anything you can do astride, you can do aside. I, too, knew Dorita very well and helped her on two different occassions with stallions that she had trouble with in her later years. She honored my by standing up and bowing at a dressage clinic in Alachua, FL one time and I will never forget it. She made my day.
Oh, and by the way Johnny, you taught me the proper way to bow a highschool horse from the saddle at Ralph Schappachers in my younger years. I still teach it today. Mary
Mary,
Thank you for the great sidesaddle information. I had always heard the best sidesaddles were the older ones made in England. How different does the tree have to be from a normal saddle, to prevent the rolling?
Wade
The sidesaddle tree is considerably wider on the left rear side and when the saddle is built, it should sit higher on the left side and from the back view, it should look like it is pulled slightly to the right of center by the balance strap. It will settle into proper placement with the weight of the rider. Hips should be square to the horses shoulders and right shoulder should be back slightly to maintain squareness of rider. When jumping, instead of looking through the horses ears, you look slightly to the right ear and push that shoulder back (Dorothy taught me that when my jumping was killing my back). It keeps you from twisting and also from spinning around the top horn on landing. Mary
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