Let's see if a valid competition should have a standard, and if the judges should tell us how they voted. Two of these horses are "famous/well know" and two aren't, but don't let that affect the outcome.
Vote for the BEST HORSE
Contestant #1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCrHjhpukHs
Contestant #2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NrUqeCiykY
Contestant #3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCB3AxWOIaU
Contestant #4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHFyXdE1Y7E
Thursday, July 24, 2008
Let's all be International Judges and judge 4 Arabian horses with no standard.
Posted by
Wade G. Burck
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15 comments:
Wade, am I the last one here tonight? This is the area where I am not the star pupil, but I will vote for Contestant #2.
Mary Ann
Mary Ann,
Very good. Why did you chose #2 and what was wrong with the other horses?
Wade
OK, this is a hard one but I have to go with number two even though........beautiful horse, very talented and working on cue.
The first horse Piaffe is beautiful but pretty is as pretty does. He is a little light weight behind in my book but who knows what some good collected work would bring forth but he is busy, busy.
Super Gus is so very boring, uncollected and if the girl weren't wearing a long dress hiding her legs, she would be doing a better Spanish walk than the horse. The passage she tried to do was non existent but she has the fans from the looks of her autograph table. It takes all kinds and this presentation is a dime a dozen.
Thelum is just sad and very hurtful to watch.
OK Wade, now we get to the part where since this is not my area of expertise, I get to make a fool of myself and you get to rip on me. However, since I am a good sport (most of the time) and play along, here goes. I didn't pick the first horse because it didn't appear to me to do much, and what was done did not appear to be carefully executed. The third horse was interesting and unconventional, but then I realized it did not have much of a repertoire. The fourth horse was little more than a beautiful girl wearing a beautiful dress riding around on a beautiful horse, with a few moves. OK Wade, fire away!
Mary Ann
Wade, I watched these again more closely. Is the third horse being forced to go lower and lower, and every once in a while he rebels? If that is what is happening, at least the first and fourth horses looked happy during their incompetence.
Mary Ann
I picked #2.
With no Standard this competition was judged by personal likes and dislikes. The only request was to judge the 4 Arabian horses as The Best, and why you chose that way?
Horse number 4 is not an Arabian, it is a Norwegian Fjord undersaddle, but some Arabians are that color so that is acceptable, according to the Herriott Standard.
How many judges knew that #2, the unanimous winner was judge, Dianne Olds Rossi a long line master?
The #1 horse, judged against 20 three year old Arabian Stallions, shown to the same standard was the unanimous Champion of the State Stud in Poland, the greatest breeder of Polish Arabian horses in the world. Yet in an "open" show with no standard, against a long line horse, a horse under saddle, and a horse "schooled in hand", he hardly got a notice.
Dianne, being a knowledge able horse person actually critiqued the various movements of the horses and rider which is how to judge horse against horse. Now judge horse against juggling, with the same precision and insight?
Thelum may be sad and hurtful to a qualified horse person, but with "no standard", an unqualified horse person, no disrespect intended Mary Ann, Thelum was interesting and unconventional, but did not have much of a repertoire. Champion Piaffe, didn't do much But if they looked happy, they didn't need to do much. There was no standard except who was BEST and each judge set their own standard. That's how they chose the BEST of the circus world at international festivals. I know I couldn't do justice to a trapeze act and I have been around some of the greatest. What arrogance makes a person, other then another trapeze flier, think they can do them justice.
In case nobody noticed, the judges at the show in Poland held up score cards, in other words told the world "their understanding of the standards", which qualified them to judge.
Thank you for being a Judge. They have already signed judges for the 2009 Monte Carlo Festival. Anybody free for 2010, all expenses paid, plus "salary/per diem".
Wade
Wade - Sorry I saw this so late, but here's my opinion. The first one is absolutely beautiful, but can he do anything besides run around on the end of a lead? Chippendale dancers are pretty to look at, but what else can they do? The second one has all the polish, presentation and training of a true professionally trained horse doing precise movements. The third one? Well, painful is a good description. The last one, though not an Arab, does not have the perfection of the second. So, my vote would definitely be for Cal Dorado.
One thing to remember, though, is that when you have a competition and ask someone to judge, you are asking for their opinion of that particular performance whether you agree with them or not.
Jeannie
Jeannie,
Agreed. And if if is hard to judge 4 horses doing different things. Ask the judges at Elkhorn to run the western horses in with the English horses and judge, and then add a mini pulling a cart, and an acrobat for good measure.
Wade
Wade - I wouldn't dare ask that. We take 4 judges, give them the same standards, same training, and same horses to look at all at the same time and they come up with 4 completely different results. That's what makes it a competition.
Jeannie
Jeannie,
Then how can five people look at a trapeze act, a contortion act, an elephant act, a parrot act, a juggler, and a bareback act, a tumbling act, a trampoline act, and a camel act, and decide 2 are Champions and 3 are Reserve Champions?
Wade
Wade - In this case, there are 9 acts. Each judge places them 1-9. They receive points based on their placing (1 for 1st, 2 for second, etc.). The scores from the 5 judges are added and the act with the lowest score is the champion, or if there is a tie, 2 champions.
I don't really think the placings are the important thing in a circus festival. The important thing is that it is getting top acts together and promoting all types of circus acts in a positive manner. Televising this festival in the only way most of us would get to see acts that don't come to the United States.
You can't please everyone and there is just no pleasing some people. No matter how you organized a circus competition, someone would complain. Again, it's just someones opinion of what they liked that day. Tomorrow the results could be completely different using the same acts and same judges.
As for the blog competition, yours is the most educational, informative, and entertaining out there. Keep up the good work.
Jeannie
Jeannie,
That is the point. They are not the top acts, they are the acts that are available at that time, and because of the cost, very few if any American acts are used unless they are in Europe. That is that damage of "promoting" the best of the best, and then the public witnesses something not so good and that is not to "positive" And the tag "Gold Clown" winner, or "Silver Clown" is tagged unto that act's resume through eternity for promoting and advertising and perception of the "best", and the judges who are past winners fully know that. I suggest the only way the result would be different the next day, would be if there was different judges. As for showing the world anything, at the same time of year in Europe are a half dozen festivals, many of higher caliber of acts, with no awards, just a Cirque/festival. Stuttgart, Heilbronn, etc. etc. It is a publicity campaign for the municipality of Monte Carlo, no more no less. Just like the Kiwannas or the Lions Club of America bringing in a Circus, carnival, or rodeo. The awards is a damaging, self serving attempt to make it seem better then the other offerings at the same time.
If Stud Spider was judged against Impressive and Bask for ride ability and won some people might say the judge only likes color. But if Stud Spider was judged against a Holstein and a Great Dane for ride abilty and the Holstein won, we might check and see if some of the judges were members of the Milk Producers Association. And that Jeannie, is how authentic and valid a circus awards festival is.
Wade
Wade - It sounds to me like a competitive festival like Monte Carlo would be chasing away the best acts and encouraging the not so good acts, thus diminishing its purpose.
I seem to remember many years ago in the US a televised show called Circus All Stars, or something like that, that presented circus acts that were supposed to be the best in the US. I don't remember the acts except that the Smahas were on with Pluto. Do you remember this?
Jeannie
Jeannie,
That is exactly what has happened. Some acts deserved what they got, because they are good, even if they had been judged against like acts, apples to apples, as it were. But they are the exception. The rule is walking around being touted as the best of disciplines. That is what has hurt. Shows like you mention did not award gold and silver, and bronze, giving the impression of an Olympic competition where milers race milers, and dashers race dashers, not broad jump against pole vaulters. By announcing I don't think it left the impression, they were the best at the craft. And with many other televised shows again it is what was available. Ian Garden Sr. provided acts for many years for a successful circus act show. If someone thought they were the best because they were on tv, so be it.
Wade
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