Monday, May 12, 2008
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A Blog designed for discussion of topics related to, but not limited to, Circus, Zoos, Animal Training, and Animal Welfare/Husbandry. Sometimes opening up the dialog is the best starting point of all. And if for nothing else when people who agree and don't agree, get together and start discussing it, it will open up a lot of peoples minds. Debate and discussion even amongst themselves opens a window where there wasn't one before.
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13 comments:
Wade, unfortunately not all zoo baby hoofstock are appreciated. "...Toronto Zoo starts killing male baby reindeer to manage the herd. Staff are heartbroken -- and furious...The first was dispatched shortly after his birth April 8.
His mom, Hayzel, bellowed mournfully for two days. You could hear her from Meadowvale Rd. The second met the same fate at the point of a hypodermic on April 22.
His mom, CUPE, is named for the zoo staff's union. Both little gaffers were chocolate brown and gangly cute. They had barely begun to nurse. Both were perfectly healthy. "Euthanized due to being male," says the keepers' report, terse and angry. The keepers were so upset they left as the vets moved into the reindeer enclosure and refused to take part. "This is wrong," the keepers told the vets, who were none too happy either.
Three female babies have been spared." Full story is at
http://www.torontosun.com/News/Columnists/Strobel_Mike/2008/05/04/5467086-sun.php
Wade, a third baby boy reindeer was born, but not euthanized.
"Toronto Zoo finds a home for reindeer. Three males including calf going to Bowmanville after criticism over euthanasia in culling herd. The Toronto Zoo has found a new home for its three male reindeer – after being hotly criticized for a decision to cull its reindeer herd and slaughter two newborn male reindeer earlier this spring. The Bowmanville Zoo has agreed to take the three remaining male European reindeer, the Toronto Zoo announced yesterday." The full story is at
http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/422335
Mary Ann,
It is a real "catch 22". You breed them, and then what do you do with surplus. I have often thought if rhinos were bred for their horns, the few wild individuals would be left alone. The financial incentive would be gone. If tigers were bred for their parts and pieces, what would be the incentive to poach? I don't know how we can have the arrogance to tell another culture what they can believe or not believe, especially if it is a religious belief.
Wade
You can cut the horns off rhino without killing them, and they've done this with wild rhino to try and remove the incentive for poachers to kill them, but it has'nt worked. There are lots of disgusting tiger farms, but it's still more profitable to kill a wild tiger. Did you know that caribou and reindeer are the exact same thing?
Mary Ann,
It is so very important not to give animals human emotions. If you saw, the Kruger video last night, dozens of female water buffalo stood off, and listened to the baby vocalize, but not wanted to make a move. Also a gentleman who had been studying Snow Leopards in Pakistan for a number of years, was upset as they had put a tracking collar on one of the females, and he felt it took away from the naturalness of the animal!!! The scientist who tagged her had to debate the benefits of tagging and tracking to him!!!!
Wade
Wade, I did watch the Kruger video last night. Thanks again for telling us about it.
Mary Ann
Paul,
What reason would there be to poach a rhino, without a horn. Could you explain what you know, about how poaching a tigers is more profitable. For whom the poacher, or the middleman? Thanks
Wade
Wade-You can't cut off the rhino's horn so clean that there is'nt a tiny bit of it left, and it grows back of course. That's still enough for a poacher, evidently, to make it worth his while. I think it costs thousands of dollars to raise a tiger in captivity for slaughter so it's still more profitable to kill a wild tiger than raise one in captivity.
Paul,
With all the parts of a tiger that there is a market for, skin, skull, bones, teeth, claws, whiskers, bladder, etc. I just don't see how poaching could be more profitable, ie. if you could provide 500 skins a year, how could poaching 3 or 4 be worthwhile. Same deal with rhino horns. If you could offer, 300 horns a year, why poach to get 3 inches of nub.
Wade
Mary Ann,
In regards to the reindeer, if you want problems with the public, give the animals names that they can identify with. The posting of names on exhibits is almost a thing of the past.
Wade
Wade, I understand what you are saying, but I have held the view for some time that if zoos and others want people to care about animals, they have to know their names. In any case, it is how I feel. Have you noticed that in the rare cases where you posted a picture of a white tiger without posting the name (for instance, the snarling picture of Snowy), my first question was "Which one is this?" A few years ago a zoo in Michigan obtained a white tigress cub on loan for the summer from a zoo that was quite proliferate in their breeding of these animals at the time. We went to see her, even though the zoo was three hours away. She was kept with a puppy, and when we asked her name, we were told that although the keepers had a name for her, the zoo did not want the public to know it, and think of her as a "pet". I found out that her name was Dhari, which means "Stripes" in Hindi. It was not well publicized, but Dhari died at the end of the summer of distemper. RIP, little Dhari. So much nicer than saying RIP, little unknown forgotten white tigress.
Mary Ann
Mary Ann,
If the public would accept that is name is just that, a name to identify, and not a personality. A Ringling publicist is fond of telling the story of Adam, when a reporter asked him what the name of the newborn cubs were. Adam looked him right in the eye, and said, "We don't name them until they are 2 weeks old, because if they die we feel bad. But if they don't have a name and they die(as he shrugs his shoulders), oh well. A dairy farmer who milks a cow every day for 10 years gives it a name. The beef rancher who sells them a feeder calfs gives them a number. When you are breeding animals you cannot get attached to individuals. It clouds your judgment on who to breed to whom, and whom to keep and whom to eliminate or castrate. In the horse business it is called, "barn blind."
Wade
Wade-It's the three or four you poach from the wild, assuming it would be so few, which are more profitable than three or four raised in captivity, especially for the poacher who would'nt make anything from captive raised tigers. I've heard that the tiger and crocodile farms also "launder" tigers and crocodiles poached from the wild. When they tried using chain saws to cut off the horns of rhinos in the hopes that poachers would leave them alone the poachers killed them any way.
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