Jungles Larry Tiglons were born Sept. 21 1969, 2 males and 1 female. I first was around them in 1973. I want to quote a statement from Larry. "We don't know what we will get if they breed," he said. "The possibilities are many and there is a chance that Maharai could start a whole strain of white "Tiglons." She was born white, and did not have any color at all for the first 24 hours." Many lions cubs were born white/light and turned to the more normal color as they matured, all at different rates. I have two old brochures from the early 60's one from Lion Country Safari, in Boca Raton and one from Lion Country Safari in California. Both have pictures of "white" lion cubs, and advertise, "come see the white lion cubs". They are about 6 weeks old, in the pictures. They "disappeared" or they turned normal color, and were forgotten until the next "surprise. Both facilities were stocked by the same company, and I have to assume most everything was related. One of the reasons I never got much excited about the "white lions". As we had always assumed Tiglons/sports were sterile, and now know different, I find Larry statement interesting. Paul, for the sake of good debate, and "I wonder" jaw stroking compare the head marking on the animal above, and Josip's new Tabby/stripe less /Chinchilla cubs.
Tuesday, May 6, 2008
Jungle Larry's Tiglon, Maharani 1973
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Wade G. Burck
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14 comments:
Wade, did this tiglon Maharani ever have offspring? If so, were they ti-tiglons? What year were they born, and what happened to them?
Mary Ann
Mary Ann-I'm pretty sure that all tigons are sterile. It's ligers which are sometimes fertile, but only the females, I think. I should double check Sarah's website.
Paul,
How is it possible for a liger to be fertile, but a tiglon not to be fertile? That just doesn't make sense. What were the Ligers bred back to, lions or tigers. What did the offspring look like. More lion or more tiger. And I want picutures!!! The few I have seen, as I don't approve of the practice, the tiglons has a deeper orance color, and the ligers looked more lion like.
Wade
Paul, I believe that Tippi Hedren had a ti-tiglon.
Mary Ann
Wade-I don't pretend to understand all of the mechanics behind it-like why are only some of the females fertile and not all of them, but the males always sterile? Why do ligers sometimes grow so huge, but not tigons? Why are tigons so much rarer? I think that Sarah Hartwell answers all of these questions on her website and I'm sorry, but I have no pictures except for one of a liger and a tigon planting the American flag on the Moon. I read of one case of a female liger bred to a lion at the Munich Zoo, I think it was, around 1943. That was the first fertile lion/tiger hybrid on record, if I'm not mistaken. Gerald Iles had a pair of tigons at the Manchester Zoo, which were born at Dresden Zoo, and sold through the Hagenbecks. They were brother and sister and bred frequently, but produced no offspring. They were later replaced by a tigon sold by the Sultan of Morroco, if I spelled that right.
Mary Ann: You are absolutely right. I forgot about that one. So female tigons can be fertile. Sometimes female mules are fertile. I heard about one female mule that was bred to a donkey and had a baby that looked just like a donkey. When she was bred to a horse she had a miscarriage of a fetus which was a cyclops.
Paul,
Maybe because the mare(womb) was smaller in the horse on mule cross may have had something to do with the deformed foal. When you think about it a DNA study of tabbys may prove to be an interesting study?
Wade
It would be. Somebody needs to suggest that to Steve O'Brien.
Wade, if golden tabbies were created from a lion cross, they would theoretically have had to start with a female liger or tiglon, and backcross to tigers, creating ti-ligers or ti-tiglons, and continuing to backcross to tigers. In the earlier stages of this presumed project, I believe that mitochondrial DNA would show lion blood up until the point where the offspring are 90% tiger. I am a mathematician, not a biologist, so I'm not sure.
Mary Ann
Mary Ann,
The Tabby color popped up in a program well know for it's ligers. It has always been suspect to me, given the different color variations I have seen of tiglons/ligers. I was always under the assumption they were sterile, until it was proven that they weren't.
Wade
Paul,
Steven O'Brien has done some remarkable work, and would be an ideal candidate for the a study.
Wade
I must correct myself on this one. It is, I believe, the nuclear DNA that would show lion blood up until the offspring are 90% tiger. The mitochondrial DNA (from the mother's side) would show lion blood up until the point where the male offspring became fertile, and the mitochondrial DNA from the female lion ancestor would become lost. Are there any biologists out there to confirm or deny?
Mary Ann
Mary Ann,
I am not a Biologist, but I think you are right. Early in life I wanted to be a Biologist, and went to college for a year. But the lure of "animal behavior", and "why" they do what they, was too strong, and I was impatient, and left school for Jungle Larry's, and never went back.
Josip is my good friend, and I respect his training skills greatly, and I don't want to give the wrong impression of what I am suggesting. I have a terrible fault of looking at things from a different angle, that has not served me well in the public relations department over the years.
Wade
Wade, it's not a fault to look at things from different angles, or to question things. If we did not have people like you, then things would be done "the way we've always done them", and no progress would ever be made.
Mary Ann
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