Interesting conversation on facebook, for anyone a part of that nitwit site who would like to follow along and/or add comment on THE ELEPHANT TEAM.

commented on Cindi Karpman Cavallini's post in The Elephant Team.

This group is dedicated to the preservation, interests and rights of WORKING elephants, yet is opposed to "animal rights".  How does the "rights" of working elephants differ from "animal rights," in the scheme of nouns and verbs?  When is someone going to respond to my numerous inquiries about "questionable" video's that have been made available for public consumption, instead of point out how the other side sucks?  Does anyone else think those videos are just going to go away?

A "lot of talk" about a documentary video.  I suggest a training video, not a feel good "we love our animals" video.



It is acceptable to use ropes to lay a horse down, but not acceptable to use ropes to lay an elephant down?



Here's a back yard nitwit doing the same thing, except not using a rope which they feel is "tapping into it's natural submissive instinct instead of flight or flight.  Except they are laying this poor horse down on hard, rocky soil.  The first clip is a knowledgeable, concerned for the animal professional.  The second clip is not.



The clip above and the clip below are excellent training clips.  First and foremost the admittance that some animals are just cows, regardless of who owns them or who their daddy and mamma was!!!!!  They are a problem from the start regardless of whether you are Gunther Gebel Williams or Larry Trocha.  Here we can actually see an animal being corrected and disciplined during the training process.  Because the trainer want's too?  No, because the particular animal is insisting on it.  Listen, listen to the important message:  the discipline/correction is applied quickly and decisively, only what is necessary, and relief is offered just as quickly and decisively.  As importantly is time, time, and time.  It's not a fast, quick, "get er done" process.  Any thing offensive seen on these clips?  Any "perceived" animal abuse/cruelty?  How many people in my profession, to this day pat themselves on the back for "getting er done quick,"  with no thought to the destruction that occurred years later?   How many people in my profession can offer a similar training/correction video as eloquently as Larry Trocha, instead of the nonsense offered of some young animals being feed meat to get on a seat or sit up on a T bar?  How does that illustrate the training of fire jumps, group roll overs or lay down sit ups.  Show me what happens when the animals fight each other?  Show me what happens when an animal refuses, as Mr. Trocha has done in these clips.  Show me how that behavior is corrected without any offensive, abusive or cruel action as Mr. Trocha has done.  Explain what the equipment is, and how it is used and it's purpose.  Surely, if Mr. Trocha can do it, you can do it.  There is more to be learned about animal behavior and animal training in these two clips, then any thing I have seen offered by the circus.  Fact.