Thursday, July 5, 2012

Hagenbeck's Sales List


DanKoehl said...

Wade, do you know from which year this list is from?

Wade G. Burck said...

1911. I thought you had dropped off the face of the earth. I asked about the discrepancy in Col. Joe's death records, and Radar said he would contact you. He then said he had, but was waiting to hear back. Nothing. Why was his death listed at Sonny's place a few day's after death, while Krone say's he died at the Krone Bau, and the the records were changed a week later to say, "unknown." Come on Dan, how can a death location not be known of a captive kept elephant. It's not like he was a wild specimen and they are trying to find the body over vast expanses of land. Why three locations of death Sonny's, the Krone Bau, and unknown?


DanKoehl said...

Thanks for the year, this means I found at least one of those elephants :)

Reg Joe, before it was official he was dead, I got a report of his death in 3rd of May, and that the total herd was with him, at Sonnis place in Platschow.

I was also told he was there since 24 April, in orde to get cured from some allergy...

Then on 17th of May I had a new report from the same source, saying "maybe colonel joe didn't die in platschow.", why I immediately changed to unknown.

And then, later again, I was told that he died in Munchen, which sounded reliable, why I changed his death locaton to Munich.

This is all I know, reg the death of Colonel Joe.

I guess one reason why such confusions occur, is that very few circuses (and many zoos) value a transparent information policy, which means that the public come to know things by rumors first, rather than by the institutions own information department.

DanKoehl said...

Hagenbecks sold an elephant with the name Kuba/Guba to Budapest Zoo in 1912. This must be the mentioned Guba on the 1911 selling poster.

Wade G. Burck said...

I am sure like the data base, it is an effort of love, and need's to thanks. But thank you anyway. Thank you also for the explanation on the "Col. Joe snafu" on the elephantdatabase. I assumed as much actually, but really wanted to know for sure, as did many folks. I also thought possibly it was decided to move he and the other elephant's to Sonny's place, and then possibly he was worse off then thought, and keeping them at the Krone Bau was a better decision then transporting them else where. Who know's, I guess? If they can't decide if he was in his late 40's, as is generally accepted with documented proof, or in his 60's as the Krone representative states is on the sale receipt(which just doesn't make sense) not knowing where is died probably is just "par for the course." The call I received, true or not, how would you confirm, stating that Col. Joe was still owned by Roland Kaiser, and was just rented to Krone would also seem to negate a "sales" receipt listing him as 60.
You are spot on in your statement "very few circus value a transparent information policy." Probably the main reason why, even today with so many changes and improvements made the public doesn't give the circus much credence or validity, after having been "forced" to make those improvement's and changes, everything is still a dark secret, unless it is some released whitewashed PR nonsense.
In expressing these thoughts to a very well know Producer, now retired, a few weeks ago, he said, "you are exactly right, Wade. We were our own worst enemy. We had done what we wanted, with no law's or rule's governing us, for so long, it was hard to accept being told what, and how we had to do it. I was the same way, like everyone else, I am embarrassed to say. We all were our own worst enemy." Until the circus can validate itself, and come out of the dark ages of 3 and 4 generations of operation, we will keep getting heat and scrutiny from the public. With the media what it is today, it is no longer a matter of moving out of town in the dead of night, leaving chaos behind. It is going to follow you, day in and day out.

Wade Burck