Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regards the life of his beast.
Does anybody remember what this "ornamentation/necklace" above is? How do our readers from Europe feel about this type of thing? Is the thinking different in Europe? How do Americans feel about it?
Monday, December 15, 2008
Addressing History and the publics perception of our profession
Posted by
Wade G. Burck
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31 comments:
To me..it looks like the claw of a cat..
I always wondered what the deal was with that.
Jewelry is making a statement.
Is the person saying," I have bested the beast and now wear it's claws"
or " I love my creatures and will wear their dead cells on a chain"
I think what an arrogant desperate cock to have to wear claws and teeth and things!
Just my opinion
Rebecca,
In the context of a society that states "they are like children to me" or "they are members of our family," to show that abuse is ridiculous, what do you think of the practice of wearing feline claws/teeth.
Wade
Wade,
So are you asking me if I think that by wearing teeth/claws/things shows that we are compassionate and not abusive?? SUppose someone declawed some animals or even deteethed them to present them?How stupid is that??Don't they need those body parts to live???
I think wearing teeth/claws/things is obnoxious and show superiority in an assinine way.
Would I wear my childrens body parts on a chain ?
Of course not.
soooooo like children to me..
Did I answer the question?
Rebecca
Rebecca,
What I was asking is "does it show a certain "hypocracy" to where the objects and then quote, "they are family to us". What does it show the public about the industry validity in making such statements. Or is it really nothing, and the wearing of claws is a circus tradition, as some would suggest.
I sure hope our European readers offer insight, as it is a widespread practice in Europe. Because some one is a "fan" and thinks everything is all right, does not mean the ticket buying public feels the same way. Let's hear from you Europeans.
Wade
Context is everything. Wearing claws and teeth may send the wrong message when you're selling "humane" training. That said, wearing animal artifacts at all is more of an ideological step child of the fur debate. I have my share of dead animal parts. Used to articulate skeletons, and I still have skulls from quite a few predators. I don't know that I could be convinced it's "wrong" to harvest artifacts when an animal dies, anymore than it's wrong to donate organs. Don't think I'd want to live in a house full of rugs made up of animals that met an early end -- but I don't think the original "intent" was all bad. When I was a kid my brother and I would trap muskrats from Nov to February. Not something I would do now, but I learned a lot about animals trying to become a better trapper -- much the same way that some hunters learn a great deal about white tails.
Ben,
That is the point of "what we are telling the public" and what the public is perceiving. Why don't they believe us? Why are we still a "soft target?" I too have many horn, antlers, skulls, harvested in a legal manner. But nothing from "my children" or "members of my family".
Wade
In the 1970's when I was in high school Wards still sold articulated human skeletons of Indian origin for around $450. Every biology teacher had one. Today I would look at that and think, "That's somebody's son or daughter." The trade in India is illegal, but still goes on. The price is just 10X higher. There is probably a legitimate philosophical discussion in all this. Is a family member a family member when he/she/it is no longer living? And there may be legitimate points on both sides. But from a public relations point-of-view, philosophical debate doesn't fit into sound bites.
Wade, I agree with Rebecca. Of course I would not wear my children's body parts on a chain. Therefore it would show a certain hypocricy to wear the body parts of my animals and then quote, "they are family to me." When my children were small, I used to save their baby teeth when I played "tooth fairy." Then one day their father sarcastically asked if I was going to make a necklace out of them. The idea struck me as so macabre, that I don't think that I have those teeth any more, or if I do, I have no idea where they are.
Mary Ann
Mary Ann,
A child losing a tooth as a course of maturing and you keep it, is I suggest, different then surgically removing it after their death(due to speculative reasons) and wearing it or giving it as a gift. I also suggest keeping fingernail clipping in a memory box, is different then surgically removing them after death(due to speculative reasons), or surgically removing them so they don't hurt you and you can walk them on a leash.
In the context of humane training, as Ben suggests, or "they are like children to me", how does it validate the statements.
An OABA roundtable, discussing the state of animals in the circus is going to be held on the 19th at Showfolks Club. On any Friday night you can walk in there, and close to 1 out of 4 people will be wearing claw necklaces, professing that the animals are "like our family."
Wade
FYI,
Since 6:00AM there have been 27 people reading the blog and this post. Every one of them either has a claw or has seen and know what they are, with the exception of Mary Ann. Three have chosen to give an opinion, and 24 apparently have no thought on the practice. Is it because, it is an unimportant issue in validating "humane training/husbandry? Or is it something that is "untouchable" like paralyzed trunks, teeth missing, death of animals, qualifications, etc. Donating to a cause "suggesting" at concern for "humane training/husbandry/public perception is concern enough, right?
Wade
No. 28!
It's not an issue in Australia.
Some [very few] of our more macho young circus blokes [it's usually males] will wear a "claw" necklace as a fashion statement. These blokes aren't animal trainers.
But the last "claw" that I checked wasn't real - it was plastic!
Steve Mate,
When you say not an issue, do mean not an issue because the public doesn't address it publicly in regards to animal rights, or not an issue because Crocodile Dundee wore a dozen croc teeth that he had killed to surviive around his neck, and it is the same as sugically taking from a "member of the family" after death or as a safety measure. That kind of not an issue? In the context of "humane training/loving care might it be a mixed signal to be used as fodder against us "soft targets."
Wade
Wade
Wade - it's not an issue because nobody gives a stuff.
The young bucks who wear this "jewelry" do so because they think that it makes them look tough and, I guess, dominant. Most of them grow out of this phase!
I haven't seen any fair dinkum animal people wear things like this. Maybe they know who and what they are in this life and don't need to create false impressions.
And it doesn't matter what signals we send out - the AR people will interpret them any way they please and we will always be "soft targets" because we won't accept minimum standards of animal welfare, training and husbandry and we won't stick together and enforce those standards. But you and I have had that discussion many times before so I won't waste my breath again on that one!
Like I said, it's not an issue over here and it intrigues me that you have brought it up a couple of times. Just another difference between our two countries.
While you're on this sort of subject - what about the trainers/owners who have their cats mounted or their skins preserved after they die? Is this done to "keep them in the family" or because the skins are [sometimes] worth more than the living animal? Or is this a taboo subject?
PS: Wade - sit down, I've got something to tell you. Have a drink, take a big, deep breath and listen to me. Ready? Crocodile Dundee is not real!!!!!!! He is an actor and even the actor has had so many face lifts that he is not real.!!!! And probably the bloody croc teeth around his neck were not real either. Sorry mate but someone had to tell you. I'll check back later to see how you're coping. LOL
Big fat idiot liar from Australia,
A lot you know moron used to be my mate!!!! Dundee is right now busy with Roy Rogers saving things and rounding up strays. Just because he doesn't time to acknowledge you, you sure get jealous don't you. When I go camping with he and Roy next week, I am not even going to tell him what you said, because you aren't worth it to us. I will borrow a famous quote for "Great Britain's Greatest Female Wild Animal Trainer" who mustered all the cute charm at her disposal when she told Wolfgang Holtzmeir, "You think you know everything!!! You need to just shut your big fat mouth!!!!" Yes, people are different. I would have said, "thank you very much. I am honored you offered your expertize." LOL
All countries are very different as well, for various reason, which Sociologists have addressed, which I won't because it will just piss some folks of. It's why I have a problem with Europe perceiving to set animal husbandry policy for the world, and vice versa. The public "perception" of things and their validity is important, and I think the rush to clean up the stable situation with new white state of the art facilities, with potted plants and tree branches wired to a pole to have a jungle, in the last ten years while stating, "it looks good to the public" is proof of that realization along with the change from death defying to "my children, who are like members of our family.
I have seen two animal skins in the home of animal people in 35 years. One just got his elephant confiscated, and the other one put her husbands Polar bear skin down in 1977 when they moved into a new estate, but she put her foot down to his tiger skins. The Polar bear skin was taken up a few years later, as their friends out side of the business were questioning it. And it just dawned on me, he had his elephants confiscated also. I think it is a certain type of individual, and we shouldn't leave the impression it is an industry, Steve. I am talking about in public, quoted calling them my children or family, while wearing the trinkets. Can anybody honestly say, they haven't been asked at some point, "are they de clawed" in reference seeing a claw necklace on somebody? Or did they get that from one of our tigers? Most high ranking members of any Shrine Club has them made into crescent moons to pin on their fess, so it is a common question if you do shrine dates. I am talking about the "public" displaying of those things whilr we are preaching love, compassion, kind animal training/compassion.
Wade
I typed in Tiger claw Necklaces and got over 19,000 sites. Most of the ones I looked at were fake,just metal shaped like a claw..But some of them were real and sell for up to 3,600.00 dollars..And most of those were sites in the UK....
Margaret,
Bet you 10.00 the ones that are real claws, aren't tiger. Where you can buy them, as they are illegal is not the issue. The issue is having one made from your animals and them preaching gentle training, and they are like family to me.
Wade
Didn't take it very well eh? Never mind, only 4 sleeps to the weekend and then Roy might let you go rideys on Trigger. Then you'll feel better!
Great Britain's Greatest Female Wild Animal Trainer sure was "cute and charming" a while back but she doesn't get your seal of approval any more either! LOL
Wade - we both know that our business is full of people who are just like those other people out in the rest of the world. We have our posers, liars, bullshitartists and hypocrites - always have had, always will have. But what a good way to spot a phony - have a look around his/her neck!
I have been on safari all day,, but I will chime in now.
Never worn a claw, and doubt I ever will. Have worn ivory jewelry made from what was trimmed from living elephants in my care.
Claws generally look ridiculous, sort of a Napoleon complex of animal people. Obviously it didn't bother the animal, but it still seems silly. Or maybe it is just not my thing. If I had known they might bring 3,600 a pop I would have held on to a few more,LOL
Wade,I agree that's the issue..But they aren't like family to me, they are wild animals..But they are animals,and no different than a cow or a horse..We eat animals and wear them, and even make glue out of them..we sit on leather sofa's and eat our steak or chicken or fish for dinner every evening..I watched the movie "Cat Dancers" last night on HBO..What a bunch of crap, it had some nice old films from circus and such..But the rest was " part of my family,Mom and Dad, the cats are our children sh&t..I'm sure Joy felt that way right up to the time the cat started to eat her..And then Ron blamed the cat saying he did it because he was white and therefore inbred..Not because he was a wild animal and that's what they sometimes do.
Margaret,
Are you suggesting that a potentially becoming extinct, if not at least severely endangered animal is the same as a cow or a chicken? Foodstuff or clothes?
Wade
Casey,
What do you mean "didn't bother the animal?" Have you ever been declawed?
It is quite lucrative. On a par financially with narcotics. Until you are busted, then it is the same down side.
Where did you get the claw's you wished you had held onto a few more of?
Wade
Wade, to quote you..In the context of a society that states"they are like children to me" yes..An animal is an animal..It is not a child or a member of your family no matter how endangered it is..Fluffy is a DOG, even if you dress him up in little doggy clothes and feed him whatever you eat..He will still bite the hand that feeds him if you piss him off..No I don't personally think it's okay to wear a tiger claw around your neck, but that's just me, I wouldn't try and stop anyone else from doing it..Just as I wouldn't throw ketchup on someone wearing a fur coat..Or protest against animals working anywhere..
Margaret,
Nobody endorses violent reactions like ketchup on fur coats. "No I don't personally think it's okay to wear a tiger claw around your neck, but that's just me, I wouldn't try and stop anyone else from doing it"
Does that mean although you don't like animal abuse personally, you wouldn't try and stop anyone else from doing it? Is it your industry swirling down the crapper, while half of it attempts to rectify while the other half clings desperately to antiquated traditions like a tiger claw membership card?
Wade
Wade
I just don't think it's any different than wearing a pair of leather boots. An animal died to make them.Some people in different cultures eat grubs and monkeys,doesn't mean I have to..But who am I to say it's wrong..
Margaret,
Leather is farmed for that purpose, as are mink. Way different deal. The mink lost out, because a whole lot more people could do without mink stoles then could do without leather shoes/boots.
Let me ask you? Do you have a tiger claw necklace, or do you have friends/family or know someone with one? Just curious.
Wade
No I don't have one,and as far as I know none of my family does either..But I knew alot of people back in the day that did, mostly animal people..but I have doubts that they killed their cats to get them..
Christ no I didn't mean from being declawed! Yeah that the animal probably cares about. I have some from a cat that died I took off before she was cremated cause I didn't want the vet or anyone else turning up with a bunch of necklaces, in turn landing me in prison. (yes I know a little about C.I.T.E.S.) so I had the vet cut them off postmortem. That I don't think bothered the cat much.
Casey,
The teeth/fangs are as popular as the claws. If she was cremated would the claws have not "cremated" also. Sounds like you are doing society a favor by drinking all the beer, so there is only one DUI out on the road, instead of 100. LOL
Wade
Margaret,
Nobody every suggested killing them. It is using them whild endorsing saving endangered species, education, their my children, etc. etc. and then mutilating them before or after death for vain cosmetic purposes.
Any horse trainers out there have hoof ink wells, teeth for a necklace etc. etc? Or seen or are aware of it? No, Margaret they were accepted as colors/identifiers of belonging to a society that had it own rules and laws. World changed, grew up, matured, etc. etc. It's called progress.
Wade
Wade
I don't know how much the world has progressed..Peta(and others) make and spend millions of dollars each year to SAVE the animals(and at the same time are making their living and supporting their families on same said animals),while thousands of children go missing and nobody cares..Babies go hungry everyday in this matured world of ours,I just think that they could put their resourses to better use..
Margret,
I am not sure, but it kinda sounds like you are trying to tell Peta what to do? LOL
Wade
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