It was spring of 1975 on the Great London Circus. One of the tigers had a litter and the mother would not take care of the 6 cubs. I knew how….and became their surragate mother. The little one that I am holding was given to me as payment for caring for the litter. They all lived. There is more to this story which I will relay to you in person if you have any interest.
http://www.thecircusblog.com/.
Wade: Thanks for this. I saw this picture on the blog and he sent me an e-mail, but how is this possible? Doesn't it rewrite history where white tigers are concerned? It pretty much changes everything ! Take care. Sincerely Paul
ReplyDeletePaul,
ReplyDeleteYou know my thoughts on this. It only changes things if there were survivor's that reproduced. Was it a totally "different line?" If so, then it has importance for jackpotting, but not for the big picture, if it didn't propagate. My opinion.
Wade
Dear Wade I have a totally different question. The Emmen Zoo in the Netherlands is famous for its elephant herd.
ReplyDeleteUp to now they had 11. Just a day ago they moved 4 to a different zoo because there was a leadership fight since about 1 1/2 years. They now decided to kerp the 7 and only grow the herd by breeding. How do, or better did circusses handle this problem with there often changing composition of large herds. And subsequently was this the only/best solution?
Would appriciate to learn you view.
A r n o l d
Wade: The white tiger cub in the picture is Tony's brother Boris. He came from a litter of three white and three orange cubs born to Baron Julius Von Uhl's tigers Raja and Sheba II. Boris had a white littermate named Tasha, I guess after the cartoon characters, you know the Russian spies. There was another white female in the litter, a white male, two white females, and three orange cubs, 6 in total. They were born in the midwest, he thinks it was Waco, Texas, in June of 1975. I have to run. What is jackpotting? I believe the white cubs all died. He was told they were sold to Siegfried & Roy, but I'm sure this never happened. Take care. Sincerely Paul
ReplyDeletePaul,
ReplyDelete"Jackpotting" is an old circus term which means sitting around telling stories, and passing on history, regardless of whether it is true or not. Similarly, in the movie Mad Max it was called the "Tell." This was the people would all gather and one man would tell them the history of what the world used to be like. Each "Teller of the Tell" had a young boy who traveled with him, and at his demise the young man would become the "Teller of the tell."
Wade
Arnold,
ReplyDeleteAlthough not always successful, I think the success that there was in the changing of herds in the circus, was the control the trainers had with the animals. Often not possible in a zoo situation, not because zoo trainers/handlers were not capable(in the past many were former circus trainers) but because of the environment. The zoo elephants normally experience the same thing, day in day out. Circus elephant's needed to be walked down the street, to the railroad car's, in a street parade and back to the tent/lot. There were many more different things going on which required more control over the animal. A few years ago, I had two elephants who had lived together in a herd situation for 8 years, one on one end of the picket line, and one on the other end. They would go after each, given any chance to come in contact with each other. In working the act, I had to keep a "blocker/buffer elephant between the two antagonist's at all times, or I had to back one up and stay will it until the other passed and got back into there position. Elephants fighting is one of the most frighting and spectacular situations you can ever be involved in with any animal.
Wade
Paul,
ReplyDeleteAgain, my opinion. My thought is if you have close to a 99% natal mortality rate, like the Baron, you are nothing more then an interesting footnote in the annuals of White Tiger history.
Wade
Wade: I get what you are saying and I agree with you, but I would still be curious to know about any other litters. By the way I just found another picture on the Buckles Weblog of Gunther with Maharani, the white sister of Tony's, in the Ringling Bros. Circus. Have a good Christmas and happy New Year. Thanks for the replies. Sincerely Paul PS: Are you still in Mexico?
ReplyDeleteWade: It was this picture I was looking at on Buckles: "Sunday, March 05, 2006 Gunther #3". The white tiger cub is Maharani, one of the two white tiger cubs which were born, along with an orange male cub (there was a white male and a white female) at the Baltimore County Fair in 1976 from Baron Julius Von Uhl's tigers, and sold to the Ringling Circus. It's a great picture. Sincerely Paul
ReplyDeletePaul,
ReplyDeleteI have the same picture. It was used in the program. GGW only had Maharani for I think 9 months or a year before she died. That's when the Feld's made the strong effort to bring my act over there. As S & R were just starting with White Tigers, Irvin Feld wanted all White Tigers in show business under his "flag ship."
Wade
Wade: There was also Sunday, March 05, 2006 Gunther #2 on Buckles, but what about the white male tiger they bought with Maharani, and the orange male, from the same litter? I knew that Maharani didn't live very long. By "jackpotting" I thought you mean't getting three white tiger cubs out of two orange parents in a single litter, like happened with Baron Julius Von Uhl's pair of tigers more than once, apparently, and with Ramana and Kesari of the National Zoo while in Cincinnati in 1974, and the pair of orange tigers in the Nandankanan Zoo in Orissa, India around 1980, which were supposed to have represented a new strain unrelated to the white tigers of Rewa (according to A.K. Roychoudhury writing in the Journal of the Bombay Natural History Society). There were lots of more recent postings about Gunther on the Buckles Weblog. Everybody seems to love him. Take care. Sincerely Paul
ReplyDeletePaul,
ReplyDeleteI never heard of a white male or gold male. I only knew Maharani, and never saw another white one. If there was a gold brother no one ever mentioned to me that he/it was her brother.
Would you not think it odd that in the mid 70's early 80's in the heated middle of the white tiger craze, that there would be numerous gold X gold mating resulting in all white offspring, and then for all intents and purpose's, no more?
As for everyone seeing to love GGW, that occurred about 5 years after his death. If you look at the archives and the early day's of Buckles Blog, you will see a number of "catty, negative" comment's about him. That changed as circus people as a rule don't like to comment publicly. They would rather comment at the showfolks club where no one will dispute them. :) As more and more trainer's and circus fans sang his praise's others went along rather then have someone say, "I saw your comment on Buckles Blog." While he was working most of the industry was jealous of him, particularly animal trainers, my self included. Why do you think the blonde hair and costumes I had were like his? I wanted to be him. Most common statements heard at the time were, "I could do the same thing, if I had what he had." Or, "give me any animals I want, and I could do the same thing." Or "Felds give him any thing he want's and leaves him alone. Who couldn't do the same thing with all that money backing you." I really started to appreciate what he was when I was brought back to Ringling to take over his tiger act. They moved different them my tigers as he had a different style/way of moving animals. It made so much sense that it changed the way I trained and moved tigers forever. What a learning experience.
Wade
Wade: I'm not sure what you mean about the gold X gold matings "and then no more". Do you mean after John F. Cuneo Jr. had those two orange tigers, Prince and Saber, from Sioux Falls Zoo castrated? Baron Julius Von Uhl's pair of orange tigers went on producing white cubs year after year. I'm sort of surprised that Gunther never became a movie star. He just dripped charisma. He could have done like Arnold and gone into politics. Ivan told me that he is going to be in a movie and that his brother played Tarzan. Ivan had a chimpanzee act and he thinks highly of you. Did you know that Theodore H. Reed passed away on July 2, 2013 in Milford, Delaware? His son Mark Reed has been the director of the Sedgwick County Zoo, in Wichita, for 30 years. I was thinking that when Theodore H. Reed was a payed agent for Clyde Beatty it must have been in 1960 when he spent six months in India trying to cut through the red tape to get a white tiger out of the country and back to Washington. I remember thinking that the white tiger that Clyde Beatty bought from the Maharaja of Rewa had to have been one of Mohini's littermates, Raja, Rani, or Sukeshi. Since Reed spent six months in India and got back late in 1960, around Christmas time, he must have been in India to pick up two white tigers, one for the National Zoo and one for Clyde Beatty, but India slapped an export ban on white tigers, and the Maharaja refunded Beatty's money. Raja, Rani, and Sukeshi became the property of New Delhi Zoo and the Government of India. A TV documentary about Mohini Rewa's jouney from India was aired in 1960 and there was a television special about the birth of her first litter in 1964. I was also surprised to read in Reed's obituary that it was Nixon who decided that the pandas would go to the National Zoo in 1972. By the way I read newspaper articles about the births of the two white, and one orange cub at the Baltimore County Fair in 1976. Even an Alaskan newspaper picked up the story and there was a picture of Baron Julius Von Uhl kissing one of the tiny newborn white tiger cubs. A.K. Roychoudhury wrote about them in Tigers of The World. Someone left a message about them under the Chicago 1943 discussion we had on the Buckles Weblog about white tigers, along with Mary Ann. That person (not Mary Ann) was there, in Baltimore, at the county fair, when the cubs were being delivered. The Baltimore Zoo veterinarian was there also. Take care. Sincerely Paul
ReplyDeletePaul,
ReplyDeleteI was suggesting how influential were any of those gold X gold offspring in the eventual history of white tigers, other then again as a footnote?
GGW was so into circus, animals, and training that he would have never considered of conceived of the idea of doing anything else. If cancer hadn't grounded him he would probably be performing today.
Nixon was right in the middle of his career highlight of dealing with China. I don't imagine he would have wanted the pandas any place but in Washington. The more paper to hang the better. :)
Wade
Wade: Just Tony I guess. Nixon also had the moon landing, although I guess that was really Kennedy's achievement. I don't see why anybody would have considered sending the pandas anywhere else. These days all we ever hear about from the National Zoo, other than a keeper being bitten by a zebra are stories about animals dying.Sincerely Paul
ReplyDeletePaul,
ReplyDeleteMany zoo's are over-rated. They gained their fame years ago, and that fame has carried it on, often now unjustified. Zoo/animal keepers were a different breed 50 years ago, also.
Wade Burck
Wade: I wonder what one of your signature white tiger logo jackets would go for on Pawn Stars. Sincerely Paul
ReplyDelete