A Blog designed for discussion of topics related to, but not limited to, Circus, Zoos, Animal Training, and Animal Welfare/Husbandry. Sometimes opening up the dialog is the best starting point of all. And if for nothing else when people who agree and don't agree, get together and start discussing it, it will open up a lot of peoples minds. Debate and discussion even amongst themselves opens a window where there wasn't one before.
Sunday, March 18, 2012
To Alec Baldwin
You open your statement above, by alluding to the fact that you have worked with actors, as a way of introducing yourself. That wasn't necessary
as pretty much the world knows you are one of those people who live in your own Private Idaho, who live by a different set of rules then the rest of the world, and for their own good you demand that they do as they are told, and live by the rules as written by you. Click on Alec Baldwin apologizes for a "clinic" on liberal back pedaling. Masterful art of deception.
"Having worked with actors for many years, it's hard for me to believe that anyone would have to be dragged kicking and screaming into show business, but for the elephants with Ringling Bros. and other circus's that's exactly what happens." Get real Alec!!! How many child actors in the history of the "noble" movie industry have been forced into the profession, were swindled out of their earnings, and became drunks, addict's or suicides? Seem's to me like it is all the same regardless of whether you are an elephant in the circus or an actor in the movies. Right?
In the wild "elephants walk for miles", but folks are claiming the walk from the train is too long? Carson and Barnes is touting that their elephant's only work a few minutes in the ring. What's it going to be, walk for miles, no walking from the train to the building, or minutes in the ring?
"Torn away from their mothers?" Idi Amin's soldiers tore babies away from their mothers. Adolf Hitler's SS tore babies away from their mothers. A mother sitting in the seats, or standing in the next door stall, watching her young son or daughter learning to dance or learning to be a gymnast has not had them "torn away from her." Wild horse's spend most of their life with their families, excepting young stallions who are driven out of the herd so they don't reproduce with their mother or sister as they mature. You see they don't know Alec. Once they are sexually mature, in other words "old enough to fuck something" they don't know or even care for that matter whether it is their mother or their sister. Momma and sister care less as they are in estrous and they just want some regardless of who the delivery man is. Nobody give's them a picture to keep in their wallet so that they know who their family is. That's the case with all animals Alec, not just horse's. Animal mother's and father's also don't refer to their offspring as "rude, thoughtless little pigs," or tell them "I made an a - - out of myself trying to make this call . . . You have insulted me for the last time. You don't have the brains or the decency as a human being," or "You've made me feel like a fool over and over and over again. I'm gonna straighten your a - - out when I see you, do you understand me?"
Alec Baldwin was taken to a Manhatten hospital early today when his teenage daughter frantically called 911, claiming he had threatened to take pills after they got into a heated fight, sources said.
Jesus Alec!!!! I should think a rap with an "elephant guide" or at the least a quick "shot with an electric prod" would be less traumatic long term to your daughter then the threat of your suicide, because of her actions!!!!!
Animal parent's appear to have a higher nobility then humans, don't they Alec? You actually have the arrogance to profess to the world that you know how an animal "parent" thinks, and what their emotions are? The elephant trainer's aren't telling you what to do with your "baby", don't tell them what to do with theirs. I would suggest, I'm not telling you, just suggesting that maybe you need to spend more time with your daughter, and less time worrying about something you know nothing about. If the temporary restraining order has been lifted, that is.
The pictures weren't taken by a "Ringling elephant trainer." They were taken by Slamming Sammy. None of your pictures, not a one show anything being "gouged with a bull hook." Not a one show's an elephant "screaming" "crying" or "struggling". Alec, FYI a "screaming" baby elephant has it's mouth gaped open, saliva flow's out of that open mouth, and it's eye's bulge. A baby elephant will scream at a drop of a hat. They will scream if momma hogs all the banana's out of the food bucket. Granted still photo's aren't as graphic as video(but you know that you are an actor, right?) these photo's show nothing of what you describe. By the way, where is the G*d damn "shocked with electric prod's" that you mention. I have asked your cohort's peta that same question in regards to these photo's "where's the electric prod" and they can't seen to point it out either. If you have a beef with a certain family, take it up with them. Don't broad brush stroke a whole industry, and I won't broad brush stoke the film industry by assuming everyone is Alec Baldwin or Joan Crawford. I'm just saying, Alec..............
Dr. Richardson, who I don't think is an animal trainer now gives a history of the "antiquated" term "breaking". Many times in the past on the pages of this blog, I have corrected people on using the term "breaking" in reference to training. If it is "broke" it can't be used, until it is fixed. It is a term no longer used except by a few who use it because it is all they have ever know. It wasn't a "breaking of spirit" as Dr., but not a trainer Richardson states, but instead a"breaking of a certain way of doing something" or a pattern of behavior into a "new" pattern of behavior, ie: I know I am supposed to not let anything on my back, but now I have been trained(had that old behavior pattern "broken" as a puppy is "house broken" to accept a rider on my back and don't react to the old pattern of bucking or shaking it off. "Depend on you for everything they need," Dr. Richardson? Isn't that what a momma is? Isn't that why it is suggested they need to spend their life with momma? "To entertain anyone's 5 year old for 15 mins.?" Do you make it up as you go, Dr. or do you sit up night's thinking this stuff up?
The "chains, the hooks, the acrushiments(how every you spell that fancy word) to remind the "elephant you are in control" are similar achrushiments(how ever you spell that fancy word) to remind horses, dogs, and all animals in the service to man including "helper monkeys" of the very same fact. Why do you have a problem with that, instead of who and how is using the achrushiments(how every you spell that fancy word.)
I wonder if anyone can tell me how much money has been spent, flying "experts" in and out, housing and feeding them, worrying about one elephant, named Ramba, in Santiago Chile and how many children are starving to death, or living in a cardboard box, with no education in that very same location and country???? You folks in Private Idaho need to quite embarrassing the human race.......
The rest of the day could be spent discrediting your "learned" statement's, gentlemen. But who has the time. It is a busy world outside of Private Idaho.
For my understanding, how cruel, awful and vicious is a 1/2 inch fiberglass stick with a 3 inch hook and a 1/2 inch prod in the hands of a man in the overall scheme of an elephants ability? While I in no way am endorsing the absurd program that is "Animal Planet", that is some pretty good footage of another side of an elephant that you folks seem to want to ignore(all things have a "dark side" wouldn't you agree, Alec?)
I wonder why that elephant whacked that Ahhhh, so sweet baby wildebeest so hard to send it flying off it's feet? What did the Ahhhhh, so sweet baby wildebeest do to the elephant? Did it torture it with elephant hooks with sharp pointy end's? Did it shock it with "shockers" causing the elephant to retaliate to defend it's poor, smarter then any thing alive, sensitive as man, non human animal self? Or maybe just pissed off at something, not really knowing what, just pissed and reacted like a 5 ton animal would be expected to react. Didn't that non human, smarter then Stephen Hawking animal realize, with it's additional "sensitivities" that it didn't have to hit the Ahhhh, so sweet baby wildebeest hard enough to kill it, at the least break a rib? A simple little slap should have sufficed. Or maybe they think like an elephant, and not a man and deal with all thing's with the strength needed to deal with an elephant. Or maybe it was simply an "accident" with the ground being the responsible party?
Alec, are you and Dr. Richardson suggesting that you know more about elephants and elephant behavior then these men above, with no riches or schooling of higher education? How about you anonymous who gives a fuck? Are you suggesting these folks know more then the men depicted in the clip above? I have saved your insignificant and bitter comment, waiting for an appropriate time to post it instead of the March 3, 2012 thread The Circus "NO SPIN ZONE": Don't Use The Same Broad Brush Stroke For Everybody. It Is Individual's, Not An Industry . The time is now, pal:
Anonymous said...
You can find a hundred cases of child protective services becoming involved over a simple spanking by parents.
I attended a Catholic school run by the Marist Brothers. It was a routine practice to beat kids with a cane. This was not a simple ruler on the knuckles - we actually used to compare our butts in the bathroom to see if blood was drawn, and it often was.(I suppose Alec's "threatened suicide" falls into a grey area as no blood was drawn?)
Going back further, it was not until the beginning of the 20th century that courts ruled against men for beating their wives.
The term corporal punishment refers to any physical punishment with strap, cane or paddle. Up until the mid 70's it was common in every state, now, apart from Texas, I believe, it is outlawed. It is now classified as assult, regardless whether it is by a parent or spouse.
After 25 years dealing with tens of thousands of prisoners and attending all the various trainings and psycological education that officers are required to attend, yes it is very plausible to form opinions. You are one individual, yet your experience entitles you to make informed opinions. The number of animal behaviourists outside the circus far outnumbers those in the business, so their combined knowledge doesn't amount to nothing. Whether you or I like it or not, in matters involved in the courts, those people's opinions are taken into account and given weight. If it wasn't for the deep pockets of the Felds who are able to mount a high priced defense, do you think there would be any animals left in the circus? Look at England which has no show with the resources to defend themselves against the well funded animal groups.
None of this is neccessarily my opinions of what I disagree with or not. The unarguable point is society has continued to change it's perceptions of what is acceptable or not.
Just as the world has continued to liberalize on every front, the chance that the society will become MORE accepting of animals in entertainment is slim to none. My city just passed a regulation that no animal including dogs can be tied for longer than 8 hours. It's a short hop to extend that to all animals - and there goes the elephants.
It was English poet Samuel Taylor Coleridge who observed in the late 1700's that "every reform, however necessary, will by weak minds be carried to an excess....." Animal regulation's and good husbandry practices are accepted and encouraged by Ringling Bros and professionally managed zoo's/animal institutions around the world. However it is the excesses of the far left liberals, the animal rights movement, peta and others of their like, and folks like the gentleman above, who regularly traffic in "crisis creation" vis a vis animal/elephant abuse and in the process have galled and conned some of the media into believing their half truths, equivocations and outright lies, which is in sorry need of reforming.
In any industry there will be isolated cases of rule infringement and violation of the spirit and letter of the law( I can name 4 folks right now in violation, without even thinking hard.) Hell, there were two books written titled "Hollywood Babylon 1" and "Hollywood Babylon 2". So much grief, sorrow and law breaking that it warranted two volumes to document. Should we ban Hollywood and the movie industry for crimes of the past? Who is responsible? You, Mr. Baldwin? Every time you debut a new movie should it be referenced by insight into Fatty Arbuckle's activities? However, many connected with the animal rights movement, with their predatory sense of opportunism, appear ever ready to pounce on the slightest animal regulated infraction by a trifling and insignificant number of recalcitrant animal people from the past, and yes a couple are still around today, and try to paint a picture of systemic and industry wide abuse.
You open your statement above, by alluding to the fact that you have worked with actors, as a way of introducing yourself. That wasn't necessary
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