A Blog designed for discussion of topics related to, but not limited to, Circus, Zoos, Animal Training, and Animal Welfare/Husbandry. Sometimes opening up the dialog is the best starting point of all. And if for nothing else when people who agree and don't agree, get together and start discussing it, it will open up a lot of peoples minds. Debate and discussion even amongst themselves opens a window where there wasn't one before.
Wayne Jackson tells us these elephants were imported by Fred Zeehandelaar. They had a rather successful breeding program for the time period in the early 1980s.
One of the four captive born African elephants still resides in Toronto. She is one of the zoo's three cows amidst the controversy of Toronto discontinuing their elephant program and relocating their elephants either to an accredited zoological facility or one of two American elephant "sanctuaries."
The PAWS Sanctuary in California is a very viable destination for the Toronto Zoo elephants, so it's inappropriate for you to use quotation marks on the word sanctuaries.
These elephants are unwell before their time and deserve a good retirement. The Zoo Board has voted to prevent them from going to any establishment that uses bull hooks. Take note.
Jem, I was unaware the vote included the bullhook-free facility. At last rumor, there was a lot of discussion to send them to Granby (which is a free contact facility). Can you share with us where this information was disseminated? I do wonder though, with elephants that have been worked in Protected Contact for such a long time, if transitioning them back to free contact is in the best interest of the animal.
"I do wonder though, with elephants that have been worked in Protected Contact for such a long time, if transitioning them back to free contact is in the best interest of the animal."
I wonder if it is in the best interest of the keepers????
Jem...these 3 elephants are perfectly well. Iringa is 42, Toka is 41, Thika will be 31 in October. There was a study showing life expectancy in Amboseli as 36...how are they unwell before their time?
Anonymous - if you exclude mortality caused by people (ivory poaching and human-elephant conflict) then life expectancy for females in Amboseli is 54. Remember that wild elephants have to contend with drought, predation (no vets on standby) and a myriad of other natural causes of death that don't exist in captivity. They are certainly not "unwell before their time". They are fully engaged in their lives with friends to meet, places to go, things to do. They are thriving. That is the difference between wild elephants and captive elephants. If you spend enough time observing wild elephants you will see sadness, loneliness and boredom etched in the faces of most captive elephants. People who work with captive elephants have a duty to spend time with wild elephants and to learn from them.
If you exclude mortality caused by people??? Talk about making the numbers suit your case!
I guess while we are comparing numbers that don't relate, let's talk about the nearly 500 elephants slaughtered in Cameroon in the month of February alone. These animals, those fighting ( literally ) for their lives, and the web of all those subsequently affected in different ways aren't deserving of a game show host's fortune; only three elephants iIn a provincial zoo n the middle of a ( different type of ) political war.
Radar, Everybody has to be careful they don't comb one thing out of a dozen that suits their purpose, and preach it as proof they are right and the world is wrong. The false statements I that read daily, printed as fact are simply incredible.
Wayne Jackson tells us these elephants were imported by Fred Zeehandelaar. They had a rather successful breeding program for the time period in the early 1980s.
ReplyDeleteOne of the four captive born African elephants still resides in Toronto. She is one of the zoo's three cows amidst the controversy of Toronto discontinuing their elephant program and relocating their elephants either to an accredited zoological facility or one of two American elephant "sanctuaries."
The PAWS Sanctuary in California is a very viable destination for the Toronto Zoo elephants, so it's inappropriate for you to use quotation marks on the word sanctuaries.
ReplyDeleteThese elephants are unwell before their time and deserve a good retirement. The Zoo Board has voted to prevent them from going to any establishment that uses bull hooks. Take note.
Jem,
ReplyDeleteI was unaware the vote included the bullhook-free facility. At last rumor, there was a lot of discussion to send them to Granby (which is a free contact facility). Can you share with us where this information was disseminated? I do wonder though, with elephants that have been worked in Protected Contact for such a long time, if transitioning them back to free contact is in the best interest of the animal.
Radar,
ReplyDelete"I do wonder though, with elephants that have been worked in Protected Contact for such a long time, if transitioning them back to free contact is in the best interest of the animal."
I wonder if it is in the best interest of the keepers????
Wade
Jem...these 3 elephants are perfectly well. Iringa is 42, Toka is 41, Thika will be 31 in October. There was a study showing life expectancy in Amboseli as 36...how are they unwell before their time?
ReplyDeleteAlison
Anonymous - if you exclude mortality caused by people (ivory poaching and human-elephant conflict) then life expectancy for females in Amboseli is 54. Remember that wild elephants have to contend with drought, predation (no vets on standby) and a myriad of other natural causes of death that don't exist in captivity. They are certainly not "unwell before their time". They are fully engaged in their lives with friends to meet, places to go, things to do. They are thriving. That is the difference between wild elephants and captive elephants. If you spend enough time observing wild elephants you will see sadness, loneliness and boredom etched in the faces of most captive elephants. People who work with captive elephants have a duty to spend time with wild elephants and to learn from them.
ReplyDeleteIf you exclude mortality caused by people??? Talk about making the numbers suit your case!
ReplyDeleteI guess while we are comparing numbers that don't relate, let's talk about the nearly 500 elephants slaughtered in Cameroon in the month of February alone. These animals, those fighting ( literally ) for their lives, and the web of all those subsequently affected in different ways aren't deserving of a game show host's fortune; only three elephants iIn a provincial zoo n the middle of a ( different type of ) political war.
Radar,
ReplyDeleteEverybody has to be careful they don't comb one thing out of a dozen that suits their purpose, and preach it as proof they are right and the world is wrong. The false statements I that read daily, printed as fact are simply incredible.
Wade