http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1370050/Britains-circus-elephant-Anne-Battered-kicked-stabbed.html
This years Academy Awards winner in the catagory "Using an isolated incident to stereotype an entire industry". Let the beating begin. This story broke over a week ago, and I have received over 20 emails with links. I wanted to see if anyone else in the industry was going to touch it, and apparently they aren't. It is also apparent given the number of links received that there are concerned folks who want it touched, they just don't want to be holding it. LOL Kidding aside this is another sad, sad day for an industry we love. Knowledgeable folks will be able to pick out the flaws in the "undercover tape", I noted 6, and any "undercover tape" needs to be analyzed with a grain of salt. I don't want to in any way give the impression I am condoning what is on the tape above, because I am not, and am saddened, embarrassed, and sickened. I have always denied the industry claims of "witch hunt", "getting singled out", "getting picked on" etc. etc. But to be fair, sometimes if it looks like, walks like, and quacks like, you have to address that also. I would be the last person in the world to climb aboard the victim boat, but that's what things are sometimes.
Note on the link above there are 332 comments, and that term is used loosely, to the Roberts story. We also address "experts" and "knowledge" yesterday.
On the same link is this story
AMANDA PLATELL: The shooting of a 5-year-old and a broken promise... how the breakdown of the family and the rise of single mothers has resulted in widespread teen criminalityhttp://zoonewsdigest.blogspot.com/2011/03/anne-last-british-circus-elephant-what.html
This is a blog that I follow, and it is quite interesting, and Peter Dickinson has insight on a lot of animal issues.
http://zoonewsdigest.blogspot.com/2011/03/anne-last-british-circus-elephant-what.html
(Haven't commented on here for a while as up until recently I haven't been able to open the comments page)
ReplyDeleteI'm glad to see this brought up on a circus blog.
Though I can understand why others haven't touched it.
I became aware of this case last week and was angry about the whole situation.
For it to be in England of all countries too.
I don't want to be seen as passing instant judgement on BRS Circus because there is only so much people can conclude from what's online and I've never seen the show or know the people.
To fly off the handle without all the facts would put me in the same boat as the activists.
But I've watched the video,this is bad any way you look at it.
Even if it was all the groom's fault and management had no knowledge of her treatment,I have to wonder why one would leave a questionable personality/anyone who wasn't 100% trustworthy unsupervised with their animals in the first place.
There has been so much controversy with Anne over the years that for this to occur is one of the most damaging incidences that could happen to the industry.
I'd understand if the other English shows will be furious cos they'll suffer because of this too.
I fear it's coming down to the point that even moderate people will lose patience with the circus industry.
How many times can it keep stuffing up?
Honestly I can understand if the public have trouble trusting us about our animal welfare.
It only takes a 30 sec tape to prove abuse while despite best efforts you can never completely prove absence of abuse short of providing a live video feed of all your contact with the animals 24/7 (that was a joke!).
We all depend on trust with public but cases like these just keep shattering this trust.
It's myself and my family's belief that no matter who they are,a groom's handling of the animals should be kept under constant supervision from one of us.
Not only to prevent abuse but I've seen far too many circus horses who have learnt bad habits like to bolt,bite,kick,rear etc from incorrect handling from grooms.
On another note what show is it above with the horse training videos? Lovely andalusion.
Hang on it's Knie,of course.
ReplyDeleteI didn't watch the video properly earlier...
"it's myself and my family's belief that no matter who they are,a groom's handling of the animals should be kept under constant supervision from one of us."
ReplyDeleteThat would certainly tend to hinder the possibility of some AR plant filming himself beating one of your animals...
For the love of God, no one believes your shock and outrage. It's been done over and over and over - it's a way of life for you bastards. Franco Knie himself has been videotaped doing the same shit. It's the millions of hours that have never been videotaped that make these few seconds that have seem sad, but actually no big deal. That's what your tragic, antiquated world is all about. And, over on the other blog they're all swapping fond stories of Hugo Schmitt - a total fucking pile of dung when it came to elephant mistreatment.
ReplyDeleteI hope this video is picked up by the media over here. Every nail in the coffin of your foul industry is a good thing. Your time has come and gone and thank God the world has a different sensibility. That almost every one of you has had your brains, livers, lungs and stomachs devored by cancer is proof that your evil will manafest itself in the rotting of your bodies. I celebrate the passing of each of you scumbags with joy.
To decent people of the world,
ReplyDeleteAgain this sadness was only posted once again as a warning to be cautious, but also as an example of what has caused animal right's to flounder. I for one, would hope as many of these folks as possible could be recruited, as they are the easiest foe to rebut. I hope they keep it up. It is a dangerous world out there. Do not think for a moment that the sickness of a Hitler or Amin is gone, simply because they are. Pray that this anonymous person has no children. If they do, they will be identified as Andrea Yates, and no longer anonymous.
Wade Burck
It will be interesting to see how this develops.
ReplyDeleteIt has been suggested that the groom was an ADI plant. Makes you wonder how anyone could get a camera into a private barn on private property and then service it for 3 weeks [batteries, film or chip change etc] if they weren't known on the property.
Mrs Moira Roberts has taken responsibilty for hiring the groom saying that she thought she was a good judge of human character but was obviously wrong. She, and her whole family are shattered by this.
We've all hired the wrong staff at times, eh Wade?
KM is right - we should all try to keep a close watch on our staff. But that's easier to do on a small show than on a bigger outfit. Her other point is very pertinent. How many of us have had good animals turned into not so good ones by the inappropriate treatment by grooms, other staff on the show or even members of the public who have been allowed too close to them?
Whatever the way it occurred, this will be the final nail in the coffin of exotic animal circus in England. The Pommy Government are due to announce their decision about exotic animal circuses in the next few days. What an opportunistic piece of timing ths was for the antis.
A great shame that a proud profession has been stuffed like this.
Domestic animals will be next.
Kelly,
ReplyDeleteAs I value your brilliant insight, I can only apologize for the problems with making comments. I understand it has occurred with a great number of other blogs, normally with comments from Europe or other areas other then the US, and as yet there has been no solution found. I may be wrong(not likely) but I think it has something to do with being stubborn and insisting on keeping the metric system, instead of changing to the much better American System. At the moment I am trying to convince google to put a "Steve Robinson Down Under" on their translation link. If it happens again at any time, please email me directly at wburck3@aol.com and I will post the comment.
"To fly off the handle without all the facts would put me in the same boat as the activists." That's pretty smart thinking for a young girl, Kelly. I too have been waiting to see how things unfold, because the video is obviously "doctored," as I stated. Any "undercover" video is suspect, unless it is run continuous, instead of bits and pieces, which is as simple as brushing your teeth to alter. This tape, of all the "undercover" video that has been done over the years, is the first one that I have ever seen that made me sit up and think, "wait a minute, this thing is fixed."
My thoughts like Steve's are, how did the tapes, batteries, etc. get changed regularly? It seems the camera was placed exactly on the elephant to record any activity near her alleged arthritic right rear leg(they even highlight it affect). It also seems that the elephant is standing with all her weight almost all the time on said arthritic leg. All animals that I am aware of keep the weigh off a disabled, arthritic, injured, sore, still leg, and don't stand with the weight on the off leg. You can even tell if an animal is off in back or front, by the way it's head moves when it walks in an effort to keep the weight off. In 3 1/2 weeks of video taping they claim the elephant was "beaten and stabbed" 48 times. In the footage they were kind enough to provide it shows the elephant being struck 20 times in 3 1/2 weeks, and two of those times was nothing more then a shove with the foot, and once was nothing more then a touch with the side of the manure fork, about as abusive as hitting your dog with a newspaper!!! One alleged "beating" looked like something was handed to the elephant in her trunk. That means in 48 alleged "beatings" videoed in 3 1/2 weeks they showed 16, and we have to assume they showed us the worst incidences. Absolutely absurd!!! Further proof it was a set up, as if any was needed, was the footage of Mr. Roberts standing in front of the elephant. Where is the continuous footage so we can see him walk up, how long he stayed, and him walking away? They "insinuate" abuse to the other animals, yet no outcry or confiscation of them? Clearly the elephant was their target, and to have a shady place like Longleat available in one week to help makes it really smelly. We don't see what the pony does at 1:25, when the groom lunges at it and it bolts. Was it trying to fight with the camel, who's head is sticking out of the stall? Hard to tell in 2 sec. with the elephant blocking it, which is obviously what they intended. I note the pony had a winter blanket on. I know a whole boat load of folks who won't spend the money for blankets for a pony. At 1:27, it sure looks to me like a farriers box on the floor, and somebody working on the mini's hooves, and the little snot(they are little snots)bolts, and he grabbed him and brought him back to continue the footwork. Would somebody be kind enough to point out the abuse in something that is done with horse's millions of times a day around the world?
Continued
Continued to Kelly,
ReplyDeleteAt 1:43 did the camel attempt to walk out of it's stall as it was being bedded, and the groom blocked it? Looks that way to someone who has been there, done that. At 1:50, again we don't see before or after, we only see someone obviously who has gotten a mouthful of water at some point, and they even show us twice, but not the before and after. An old wives tale is to spit in a camels face if he spits at you. I have never seen it ever done, until now, which really, really makes it suspect. Doesn't seem much more abusive then a spray bottle with a dog or cat. Difference is much of a waste of time with a camel as is baling out a boat with a spoon. At 1:20 did they cut out the pony biting the groom, before he reacted? Sure looks that way to me. Why not let us see the before and after?
The whole agenda of this tape was just to video the elephant and focus on her alleged, arthritic leg. They had one motive and one only. The article with the tape said "beaten and stabbed". The tape only states "beaten". A few of those "beatings" were nothing at all, and the rest looked a lot worse then they were, given the muscled hip was struck(there is a reason why the "behind" is used for a spanking) and it makes a louder noise which helps in claiming "abuse". I've been hit with a fork a number of times, and given it's long handle and broad end, the blow is hardly consequential at all, and I am not near as developed muscularly as an elephant.
I have been waiting for ECA to make a statement or issue something. As they are tight with Monaco, where the circus festival is held each year, who donated animals for release in their homeland to Born Free, whom is affiliated with ADI, it might make you wonder? I don't want to think that and I suppose it is because Bobby Roberts is not a member of their "helping circus's around the world" organization. But the Association of Circus Proprietors of Great Britain is as an Associated Member, and I am surprised that they have not addressed it. They should be doubly concerned, that it sure looks like a home was located in advance for the elephant before the tape even was aired. They specifically targeted the elephant and her leg, which has been their mane issue for years, and in one week, ONE WEEK after three weeks of not much it is a done deal. That is awful frighting in innocent until proven guilty world, considering Ringling was found guilty and fined for going undercover against PAWS a number of years ago, after a lengthy and costly trial.
Wade
Steve,
ReplyDeleteI have never seen anything stink like week old road kill, as this video does. I don't know if it is "one" person in the video, as it is such a poor quality to really tell. But as the focus seems to be on the "Romanian", I have to wonder incredibly why no one ECA, OABA, or the British equivalent has not contacted him, to find out what he has to say. Was he planted there, and the "beatings" staged? Was he just a hire who ADI was able to flip, with some kind of payment to "simulate" a beating particularly on the right side of the body where the "arthritic leg" which is so important to their claim is located? The "beatings" sure were not much, just enough to make the uneducated, uninformed, unknowing individual gag. These folks only seem to think "wild animals" are abused, and worthy of their righteous intervention. You have to wonder as they included "alleged" abuse of camels and ponies in their opera why they weren't sent away in the same week as the elephant? No, the last elephant standing was the target, and they were going to accomplish their goal, legal or illegally, one way or the other.
Yes, I have had bad hires, but never, ever have I had anyone correct or handle an animal in any way other then what I have taught them or authorized them. I have a STRICT(myself and the animal environment which the truck/trailer they sleep in is included, as well as their barbecue grill, unless it is set up 5 miles away from the animals)no drinking and no drugs policy, which is enforced, and have had to let a few go over the years, who didn't adhere to that policy. Strict supervision has prevented any abuse or mishandling, which is aided by my policy of never hiring groom's who have worked for certain trainers. There are many grooms who assume because such and such trainer allowed things to be done, that it is the norm, and acceptable every place. I saw that in other trainers situations early on in my career, and thus stayed away from certain grooms who had worked for certain trainers. The most exasperating, difficult grooms I ever had to deal with were Adam and Eric Burck. They always questioned me and my competence, and insisted that they knew more then me, and a better way of doing everything. Once I got them off the payroll, everybody else on staff thought I was pretty sharp.
Wade
Bobby Roberts Super Circus was a member of the Pommy Circus Proprietors Association but resigned [pushed?] over this incident. The Association couldn't even get the name of their circus right in the press release breaking the news.
ReplyDeleteAn old circus mate of mine in the UK tells me that he knows that this video is a fake - the "Romanian" wears different jackets at different times and no real groom could ever afford more than one jacket!
This whole set-up is now moving into the next phase - begging for money. I've seen the "sanctuaries" in the US do it, they did it in New Zealand with Tony Ratcliffe's elephant and now Longleat is doing it.
A group of us were discussing this video last week-end and Mrs Lorraine Grant of the venerable Ashton family made the point that you are making - show us the whole, continuous, undoctored video. 3 minutes out of 3 weeks filming is not fair dinkum.
ReplyDeleteAnd, nowhere did I see this elephant "stabbed" as the headlines are claiming.
The world is upside down if a family can lose an elephant as a result of this garbage.
Steve,
ReplyDeleteThis is the only video of the dozens, and dozens of video's that have been taken "undercover" over the years of "alleged" abuse that doesn't look right. Amazingly amateurish and obviously very, very misleading, and the first and only one that instantly made me go, "wait a minute, how ignorant do you think a human being is!!!" For the first time, I am really, really angry. If you want to fight, fight fair. Don't resort to this elementary, childish tactic. It more them proves how little they actually have. Longlett being there to help is beyond laughable. This is indeed a crime, and if an other industry,race of people, minority, or way of life was gone after the same way, the law's of a civilized nation would shut this type of thing down in a heart beat. But with things like the Pommy circus organization, holding the festival in Monaco, and nobody getting a hold of the Romanian chap(how long was he with the Robert's, did they let him go, where is he now) maybe our industry will commit suicide long before the ar can kill it.
Wade
Apparently there are still problems with making comments on the blog. I can only apologize once again and ask you to email me personally at wburck3@aol.com if you experience difficulty. No one seems to know why blogs won't let comments post.
ReplyDeleteFrom Kelly Maynard,
Here's the comment that I wanted to leave on the Bobby Roberts post:
I must've seen a shortened version of the video you saw.
The one I saw had no footage of ill treatment against camels and ponies.
Only the elephant. Did not go for 3 min either.
Look lets say it is true that the video is a complete set up by the animals rights activists to destroy the UK industry for good.
It's certainly very possible,stranger things have happened.
I watched the short video,the fact that it is a cut and paste job was glaringly obvious right away.
Plus most of the footage looked way too convenient to me.
The elephant was just standing there quietly,I could see no evidence of her acting in a way that needed correction.There seemed to be no motive.
It almost sounded like SFX were added to up the drama.
The image quality was appalling,I mean the famous Big foot video was clearer.
The fact that you never see the man's face clearly once,makes me even more suspicious.
Whether or not she was getting hit lightly is irrelevant in my opinion. She was getting hit hard enough to shy away and respond swiftly (like when she is laying down and gets the fork up her backside) so she still must've felt it a bit.
Despite your comparison,if somebody ever hit any of my dogs with a rolled up newspaper they'd be sorry for it.
While I recognise the need to be firm and set clear boundaries with animals,be it dogs to horses to elephants,I don't like heavy handedness in handling/training.
From what I've seen,hard handling most often either creates nasty,unstable animals or nervous wrecks.
I do wonder if this elephant gave any warning signs of her treatment around this person.
You'd usually be able to tell straight away if an animal is "toey" of someone.
I'm not at all against hiring staff to help with animals but you have to be extremely careful,especially in today's climate of animal rights activists stopping at nothing to get their headline.
I know we don't have many animals so we can get away with less staff but I'm sorry,circuses have to be responsible about how many animals they keep.
If you can't be personally hands on with their care you may have to rethink the way you're operating.
I know this may offend some but again this is just my opinion.
However after going over my other post again,I might have seemed a bit unsympathetic overall to circuses.
It's just that many of these scandals seem fairly preventable.
There's no room for error anymore.
Still to be honest I may have originally placed more blame on BRS circus than was deserved,it's just that so many aspects of this case don't add up.
I'm the last one to believe in conspiracy theories,but if this is as big a set up as some are saying,that is a truly terrifying prospect.
Hell,even if my dogs decide get into a scrap with each other over a bone occasionally,can it be filmed to look like circus people are holding organised dog fights for goodness sake!?
A bit dramatic I know,but when you really think about it anything can be filmed to convincingly incriminate someone.
Kelly