A Blog designed for discussion of topics related to, but not limited to, Circus, Zoos, Animal Training, and Animal Welfare/Husbandry. Sometimes opening up the dialog is the best starting point of all. And if for nothing else when people who agree and don't agree, get together and start discussing it, it will open up a lot of peoples minds. Debate and discussion even amongst themselves opens a window where there wasn't one before.
Wednesday, April 6, 2011
Lincoln Park Zoo--1990
On the back of this photo is states that the elephant is pregnant.
This is Bozie, who gave birth to Shanti in October 1990. Bozie now resides at the Baton Rouge Zoo in Louisiana. Her daughter Shanti is a breeding female at the Houston Zoo.
My dad said Bozie was one of the best elephants with whom he has worked.
Radar, What was her history before Lincoln Park? As we have been lead, wrongly I might add, by Col. Herriott and others that zoo trainers aren't worth squat, did she have a "circus history" prior to Lincoln Park? Wad
No circus history - she was included in my post to Jim regarding the LPZ baby elephants. She was imported to the zoo as a young calf. In the early-1980s she was loaned to the Madison zoo for several years before returning to Chicago. Her pregnancy occurred during a breeding loan to the Springfield zoo in the late-1980s.
Radar, I knew she had no "circus history" but just wanted to confirm. Where this crap of "were good" and "you suck" came from directed at zoo personal, I'll never know. With exceptions, it is a relatively new phenomena. Circus folks need to look at some of their own "elephant history", with exceptions, before sloughing another industry for incompetence. Wade
I can't recall the gentleman's name (Herb something comes to mind) that was a keeper at the Vilas Park Zoo in Madison. He was visiting Buckles when I met him. Perhaps like me, he knew a number of trainers who gave him some tips on elephant training and he turned out some nice animals. Might explain Bozie's behavior.
Jim, The success or lack there of tips, is dependent on how well the receiver utilizes them combined with the knowledge of his animals. Tips are like a doctor making a diagnosis on the golf course, with out seeing or knowing the patient, speculation based on similar, but maybe very different experiences. The person asking may be describing what they are seeing wrong. Many, many times when asked for a "tip" I will preface with, "It would be easier if I could see the animal, but here's what it sounds like, or here is what you may try." A qualified person will utilize the "tip" in that context and either do well with it, or get in a boat load of trouble. Wade
All true. You have to consider the source of the tip. Did you understand the tip or just part of it. All kinds of things come into play. If a person already had an understanding of how to achieve the goal and some intuitive talent, tips can save some wear and tear on trainer and trainee. Ideal is an experienced trainer observing the rookie in action -- but that doesn't always happen. Of course I've (we've) all had some good animals that worked well in spite of how they were trained.
Jim, You are correct, and I have been blessed with some great, great animals. At least once a day I take a moment to reflect on those individuals, and what they taught me. Wade
Jim, I have found mention of the elephant trainer you mentioned from the Henry Vilas Zoo in Madison. His name was Henry Malzacher. He also trained the African elephant Tombi at Potter Park Zoo in Lansing, Michigan. She now resides at the Indianapolis Zoo.
On the back of this photo is states that the elephant is pregnant.
This is Bozie, who gave birth to Shanti in October 1990. Bozie now resides at the Baton Rouge Zoo in Louisiana. Her daughter Shanti is a breeding female at the Houston Zoo.
ReplyDeleteMy dad said Bozie was one of the best elephants with whom he has worked.
Radar,
ReplyDeleteWhat was her history before Lincoln Park? As we have been lead, wrongly I might add, by Col. Herriott and others that zoo trainers aren't worth squat, did she have a "circus history" prior to Lincoln Park?
Wad
No circus history - she was included in my post to Jim regarding the LPZ baby elephants. She was imported to the zoo as a young calf. In the early-1980s she was loaned to the Madison zoo for several years before returning to Chicago. Her pregnancy occurred during a breeding loan to the Springfield zoo in the late-1980s.
ReplyDeleteRadar,
ReplyDeleteI knew she had no "circus history" but just wanted to confirm. Where this crap of "were good" and "you suck" came from directed at zoo personal, I'll never know. With exceptions, it is a relatively new phenomena. Circus folks need to look at some of their own "elephant history", with exceptions, before sloughing another industry for incompetence.
Wade
I can't recall the gentleman's name (Herb something comes to mind) that was a keeper at the Vilas Park Zoo in Madison. He was visiting Buckles when I met him. Perhaps like me, he knew a number of trainers who gave him some tips on elephant training and he turned out some nice animals. Might explain Bozie's behavior.
ReplyDeleteJim,
ReplyDeleteThe success or lack there of tips, is dependent on how well the receiver utilizes them combined with the knowledge of his animals. Tips are like a doctor making a diagnosis on the golf course, with out seeing or knowing the patient, speculation based on similar, but maybe very different experiences. The person asking may be describing what they are seeing wrong. Many, many times when asked for a "tip" I will preface with, "It would be easier if I could see the animal, but here's what it sounds like, or here is what you may try." A qualified person will utilize the "tip" in that context and either do well with it, or get in a boat load of trouble.
Wade
All true. You have to consider the source of the tip. Did you understand the tip or just part of it. All kinds of things come into play. If a person already had an understanding of how to achieve the goal and some intuitive talent, tips can save some wear and tear on trainer and trainee. Ideal is an experienced trainer observing the rookie in action -- but that doesn't always happen. Of course I've (we've) all had some good animals that worked well in spite of how they were trained.
ReplyDeleteJim,
ReplyDeleteYou are correct, and I have been blessed with some great, great animals. At least once a day I take a moment to reflect on those individuals, and what they taught me.
Wade
Jim,
ReplyDeleteI have found mention of the elephant trainer you mentioned from the Henry Vilas Zoo in Madison. His name was Henry Malzacher. He also trained the African elephant Tombi at Potter Park Zoo in Lansing, Michigan. She now resides at the Indianapolis Zoo.