In a effort to disprove the prosecutor/animal rights contention that, while there may be 2000 employees, only one is speaking up because the others are afraid to say anything, I posted a video of these elephants, which are known world wide as "Circus elephants", that Mike Naughton contributed. I posted the video one week ago today, under the heading "Chris Baltrops Dog's" with this request, "I want any of you elephant men to watch this tape at 2:34 and tell me what that is on the Asian cow's left hip?" As of today there have been no response's or answers. I suggest we can assume three things. One: nobody looked at the tape. Two: nobody knew what that mark was on her hip, or three: nobody wanted to say what it was? And I would still like to know if any of you elephant men, or anyone in the hospice field, have seen a mark like that, and if so know what causes it?
"The trainer just deals with them by word of voice, he's not pushing them around with sticks or whips or anything else. "He just says 'do this' and they follow him and do it. They follow him around devotedly like some sort of dog... [it is the] same sort of relationship." Possibly "circus spokesman/elephant training expert" Chris Baltop, who made this statement, which completely contradicts Mr. Kenneth Feld, under oath, could take a moment to explain what that is in this gentleman's left hand.
These elephants are being touted world wide as "an example of the care/training circus elephants receive." Who has hurt who? Is this the standard that all "Circus/Animal Training" should all be "umbrelled" under?
Wade, it's hard to tell froma picture! I have seen pressure sores in that position, I have seen scars from accidents (possibly from abuse?) and I have seen fungal infections (though not on the hip). I have also seen undiagnosed skin complaints, but my guess would be a pressure sore. However I wouldn't say it IS a pressure sore because I can't tell from the picture! Maybe that's why you haven't had any answers!!!
ReplyDeleteDon,
ReplyDeleteI would bet it is a pressure sore:
Delhi has stiff front legs and an abscess. In 2006, the elephant had to be rescued by German firefighters after being unable to get to its feet. Two years later, rescuers were called again to pull the animal to safety after it went swimming in a lake with its German owner, a former zookeeper. Reports said Delhi had arthritis, preventing it scaling the muddy bank.
An animal, such as a horse getting old and physically being unable to work/perform is normal and natural. What has done so much damage and continues to do damage, is not retiring those old animals as would be a natural course with anything and presenting them in public, which has started having a problem with performing already. How many animal show's of any type have you ever been too(dog, horse, cow, cat etc.) where you could visually see the animal was to old to perform, had wounds/sores, or other physical ailments as it was performing. Horse ailments can be masked with Bute to a point, but even that option isn't 100%, and eventually the animal is retired.
Wade
Addendum to Don,
ReplyDeleteI'll bet a lot of people noted a pressure sore. As many as note a paralyzed trunk, when they want to.
Wade
Wade, you're probably right, since pressure sores are pretty common on the hip, but it's one of those deals where any definite conclusion requires more information... the "history" of problems you describe -- in getting up, given her age, and the probability that she's on asphalt or concrete much of the time certainly says pressure sores.
ReplyDeleteWade, I will catch this show if it is within 100miles of here, (not guaranteed, as so many local government departments have banned performing animals, even though it is not illegal) and I will endeavour to get as much information as I can. Also pictures, if possible!! You are quite right, if that animal is below par healthwise it should be out of the ring, but the difference between elephants and domestics is that very few people in the audience would know if an elephant was moving wrong or in poor condition. I saw the last performing circus elephant in UK a few years ago and she looked poor, but I didn't hear one visitor to the menagerie tent comment on it.
ReplyDeleteDon,
ReplyDeleteYeah right. Make sure you ask the circus spokesperson, to get the facts. LOL
You hit exactly what I feel has been my industries downfall in addressing and dealing with animal issues. Given the transient nature of the business, they were never there long enough for someone to say, "wait a minute." With mass communication, that killed the tradition of "duck and dodge" or get out of town. As you observed the trotting horses, there may not be time to object, but if you looked at them day in and day out, you are going to notice more. Also a lame horse is more noticeable to the uneducated eye, when it is performing with 50 other horses.
If you had an elephant, in tough shape, and the folks looked at her day after day in your zoo they will note something not right. Old age and/or physical problems are normal and not objectionable. Using those obviously distressed animals is objectionable. Dianne Olds Rossi had an old horse which recently passed away. That horse quit performing years ago, and new horse's have been used. Because of Knighty's physical shape due to age, it was not objectionable to pleasure ride him, but he quit performing years ago. Going to a new town, or even a new country with communications what they are today, all you do is take it to a new place, and dirty that place. It doesn't go away. There are performing animals right now in France and Germany that "fled" there, and will be there for the rest of their lives, risking confiscation if they ever leave.
Case in point. Do you recall hearing of an elephant named Lota? She was a physically poor elephant with some behavioral/social/herd issues/problems owned by the Milwaukee Zoo. Because of her poor state and issues she was kept off exhibit for a number of years. Bob Barker and his mob caught wind of it, and put up a hell of a bitch. In desperation the zoo contacted a well known circus training facility and offered to sell her to them for the popular 1.00, to get her off their hands, pre-sanctuary day's. The training facility in their arrogance took her, and Barker and his mob moved 50 miles south and continued their bitch. That was in 1991, and has been historically described as the "straw that broke the camels back", and after many years of problems, in 2006 the last elephants confiscated from the above mentioned training facility, arrived in Calif., where Bob Barker and his mob has built them a multimillion dollar barn. My industry was damaged greatly by that event. The ignorance of thinking that the public is as stupid as they were hundreds of years ago as we were building "traditions" continues to harm us. And yes, I object strongly to being "stereotyped" by ignorant/arrogant/greedy practices in this industry. If the Dianne Olds Rossi's of the equine world, used the old Freisian for performances because there were only a few left, I promise, they would assure that there was no future for the Freisian either.
Wade
Two points for your consideration, Wade, since you won't post them - as is clearly your right.
ReplyDelete1) Are you truly of the belief, as you seem to be in your post, that it is the Barker crowd's bitching that was the side of evil in that scenario? Not the people who continued to work her while her lungs died?
There are certainly people within the circus industry who are neither ignorant, nor greedy, nor arrogant, but they are not the ones that command attention. And that's why the circus industry is so damaged.
A2,
I will post half your comment here, because you have misinterpreted again in your zealousness, and I will post the other half as a thread because, you have finally answered your own question.
I never inferred that "Barker's mob bitching" was the side of anything. The flaw was in the other facility taking that animal, after the attention was on her, which just focused the attention on them. Like fleeing to an other country or town. The problem is still there,(and once and for all, forget you and your TB conspiracy theory. Get a new "Schtik" that's as antiquated as, "they are like family" in my yard), you have just exasperated issues, that was not your doing, and brought it to the attention of new folks. The zoo did a "Prince Albert hand off" which also was a severe flaw. The zoo took a beating for that from their industry. My industry on the other hand, in an effort to shoot off the rest of their leg, are still patting Albert on the back, and sitting in his lap like Santa Claus, with their Christmas wishes.
"There are certainly people within the circus industry who are neither ignorant, nor greedy, nor arrogant, but they are not the ones that command attention. And that's why the circus industry is so damaged." This is probably the most brilliant, insightful statement you have made, and it is 100% fact. It points to a bit of understanding, and not so much radicalism/stereotyping.
Wade